Ich schreibe das mit Absicht jetzt auf Deutsch, weil ich von Englisch auf Deutsch übersetze. Als ich hier angefangen habe zu übersetzen, hatte ich eine Mod. die mir sehr viel geholfen hat, sie hat mir Hinweise gegeben, mich verbessert, ich habe viel von ihr gelernt und lerne auch heute noch viel von ihr. Jeder Anfänger macht Fehler, wenn wir als Kinder in die Schule gehen, lernen wir und unsere Lehrer helfen uns. Ich finde die Mod. gut die den Anfängern eine Chance geben, so wie somejuwels es selbst auch geschrieben hat. Wenn ich bei anderen Anbietern China-Filme anschaue und dann bei Viki, erkennt man große Unterschiede: Die Übersetzungen bei Viki sind besser, genauer und vor allem was wichtig ist, die in Klammern geschriebenen Erklärungen. Ich kann nur jeden Mod. bitten den Anfängern eine Chance zu geben und nicht zu sagen: Anfänger will ich nicht.
In theory:
Anyone subbing or editing should know enough the language to make sentences, understand sentences and expressions.
Ex: I give an English article to someone, I ask him to make a summary in my language or to explain me some paragraphs, the person should be able to understand and tell me this level of detail without looking up in the dictionary more than 1-3.
Or I give a text with many mistakes in translation or grammar mistakes, the person should be able to tell me where.
Maybe not 100% right, but with an acceptable margin of mistakes.
“I know this language” and “I master this language” could be interpreted really differently depending on the person’s perspective.
In reality:
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Not enough volunteers (except Spanish?), that’s why can they (Viki, we in some languages) be picky? It’s not like the pool is full or even enough in some languages.
But it doesn’t mean that since we are a few and it’s a volunteering activity, it’s okay to downgrade the quality until some extent, because it could affect sales and some volunteers would cry and flee because of this quality or some would be labeled “abusers” and reported. -
For recruiting subbers:
– either say no and good luck with finishing subbing/editing
– either say yes and good luck with editing
– either say “I would teach you.”
In reality, each answer could be told depending on the person in front (the fluency in mind) and the situation.
To test fluency for someone who doesn’t know the language (a CM is recruiting for example) in an objective way and that wouldn’t raise objections: the academy?
Note:
Having in mind that there’s a limit to what is possible to teach and be taught in a subbing academy on Viki. To know what the limits are or where the person is on the fluency scale to subtitle on Viki, I recommend trying the subbing academy because they get a chance to subtitle at least a part and have feedback on where they could improve. It’s not always an opportunity given when recruiting for a channel, it’s a different organization.
Wir sprechen nicht davon, niemals einen Anfänger zu akzeptieren. Wir sprechen über die Moderatoren, die nicht akzeptieren, dass jemand, der kein QC ist (eine QC ist möglicherweise noch ein Anfänger mit nur 3000 Untertiteln) für ein NEUES Drama, das jetzt ausgestrahlt wird.
I don’t intend to discourage you, you know it already.
Honestly, I think 3 months is too long for the subbing course in project.
It’s like saying to a new volunteer: “In 3 months, you will be able to subtitle.”
If as a new subber, I would have been told that I would need 3 months to be able to subtitle The Return of Superman, I wouldn’t have tried the course, because 3 months in my mind is a lot of time and I would have tried to be accepted in a team without following the course.
It could be discouraging for a new volunteer to hear “3 months.”
Plus, I think we in a global way (not only you and I) as newcomers didn’t take 3 months.
We might have learnt different things in a spaced manner, but if we condense everything, I think 3 months is somewhat too much. (Don’t take it badly, not my intent)
We’re not saying that. Of course the volunteer can start subtitling right away while doing the course. It’s even beneficial, because they can test what they learn right away. The first lessons about etiquette and the subbing tools are the only thing needed, and this can be learned in one day. All the rest can be done in parallel.
And of course, I said “three months” but in reality it all depends on the person. Someone may complete it in one month if they have the free time and the will to put their time to it.
It’s not like segmenting, where they - rightly - forbid you from doing it before finishing.
But this conversation somehow came here from the other thread. Which in itself started with another subject.
I wish we could make a thread about subtitling courses and move everything there.
It’s because it’s linked.
QC only? No, it’s not about the quantity, it could be pass restrictions.
QCs? It is not synonym of quality btw. QCs might be one of the criteria to be recruited by mods, but the essential criterion (or should be) is also quality.
Quality? The subbing academy.
A subbing academy? I wish I could enroll.
It’s in construction btw.
If we’re not discussing the academy construction, then it doesn’t solve a lot of things, such as:
- not enough volunteers,
- quality,
- welcoming community,
- abusers
It depends on what is taught during 1 month.
(The person could be taught what she already knows from her first try in subbing?)
I’m stopping here, because it would become a debate and my brain should be working on “Accord du participe passé” quizz.
Have a good night!
Of course it’s not. I wrote as much in my very first post here. That I only specify “QCs or vikipass holders only” if the drama is behind vikipass (as most on-air dramas are). Because if they don’t have one of the two, they can’t even view it, let alone work on it. Simple.
Sometimes you come across an excellent new person. New here but skilled already, good level in both languages, intelligent and quick to learn.
Sometimes you even find a rare pearl. I’ve met one who was a student of Oriental languages (she eventually graduated last month) AND has taken a subtitling course AND is a freelance subtitle translator for NF, Disney and others. As you understand, I grabbed her immediately and she’s been an immense help as an editor.
So yeah, QC or not, it all depends.
I have people asking me in Spanish, French or whatever language I don’t know ask me if they can be a subber/mod.
- Write to me in a language I know. (Dutch/English)
- If you cannot write me a proper PM in English how are you supposed to translate a whole drama?!
- I must be able to communicate with my mods properly, that’s impossible if they cannot understand my PM’s.
There are some PMs, it is easy to see for the English part.
But some PMs, we can only attest the English knowledge, not the level in the targeted language:
- English fine in PM
- the targeted language: can’t know if we’re not native or studied it enough.
They could be English native and learn a new language and ask to subtitle in this new language.
Or they could be X native, studied English and learn a new language.
But still people should not assume everyone knows their language. I even had people who really refused to use English after I told them I didn’t know their language. So yes for me it’s a no go mod wise if you don’t bother using English (or Dutch).
And checking if someone is good enough to sub in a language you don’t know is impossible or must we ask others to check it for us all the time ? What if those others are not good either? If we need to check everyone for everyone it would be a 24/7 job and no one has time to actually sub.
I’m not disagreeing, it’s the same idea (not a “but still”).
The cases are:
- not knowing how Viki works
- not knowing English
- not knowing their targeted language
The case you say is at least: not knowing how Viki works and not knowing English.
The situation you describe is echoing:
If they don’t want to communicate in English, that’s where it’s easy to know whether they know English or no. I would have liked to have this case more often because there’s no doubt left.
__
The common trait between someone who knows a language (English or targeted) or who doesn’t know is: they don’t know how Viki works. But we can’t mix these 2 types of candidates basing on the same PM from the PF, that’s why recruiters have to make the distinction because:
New people don’t know how it works on Viki, who they are contacting through the Project Finder or the languages the one receiving the PM have learnt, or distinction between a subber/moderator.
They don’t know anything and the automatic messages sent from the PF is giving the name of the language not translated in English.
Yes, that’s why:
It’s not testing fluency in English only, like the academy, it’s testing the fluency in the targeted language and learning Viki way of working.
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From the beginning, the system is biased to ask CM to recruit correctly moderators without mistake.
But CMs still have to do it, right? Even if the CMs could be wrong in picking and could pick an abuser.
And society condemns people who “report” abusers who have enough subtitles or are old on Viki.
Because many CMs were wrong in picking the moderators and it goes on, so abusers can still sit peacefully on Viki.
Same old story and it will be the same 10 years later. Never getting old.
If an academy could be there in every language, at least, it would provide some guarantee to recruiters.
Ah, I’ve been recently made CM of an on-air project, as you know, for the first time (the other few times were old projects or films and I was the one asking here and there). With all the flood of people requesting to be moderators, I’ve spent hours and hours checking each and every one of each moderator’s recent projects. I had to eliminate some very well-known ones because they had quite a bit of unfinished projects, and still had the nerve to ask for another one!
The system HAS to be improved. I mean the volunteer’s project page must give much more info much more easily. Whoever visits that page must be able to know at a glance
- which projects are finished, which are not,
- the date when the moderator was appointed
- the state of completion of each - both in English and in the target language of the specific moderator.
I know, I’m repeating myself, sorry! But if we insistently ask for it, if we all ask, maybe, just maybe, they might consider doing some of it at least.
Yes, I’d think Viki’d also know the beta product they’re presenting.
There are some things the PF can show including having the Viki pass:
What the PF can’t show is the fluency, that’s why the PF can’t solve everything, CMs would still have this remaining part to look at when recruiting.
And that’s why the academy certificate or Viki specialists in languages could show up.
I know it serves its goal, but how much time each time you have to lose doing this?
In terms of added value, I think there’s more added value when you edit, than when you do this. But since you’re CM, you still got to check it, right?
I don’t know why you wanted to manage, but I think people who are the most proficient in a certain area shouldn’t manage because they add a lot of administrative tasks to their workload, but in a way, it is tiring to have a channel manager who doesn’t do anything or who doesn’t care enough, so it gives you good leverage on some things.
Still, I think it’s wasting rare competencies in editing or in subbing to manage. Just my thoughts.
Since you are curious, I’ll tell you. Because of the monopolies (can it be used in the plural? Oh well…), nowadays it is virtually the only way to get a post of Italian moderator.
(Anna Bene was an exception, she had worked with me before in historicals, therefore gave me 100 Days My Prince)
Then, it’s like saying channel managers only pick channel managers on other channels to be moderators because they expect something in return? And not because (or not only because) of quality or fairness or completeness of translation?
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Why would you want to go towards Italian moderations when it’s already locked and when you could be a moderator in some other languages you know or be an editor?
I think you have more chance in hitting Greek moderation or English edition.
Not that I want to discourage you being an Italian moderator, just that I think what a hassle it is just to moderate in Italian.
It surprises me you haven’t got a chance to moderate in Italian.
After all, we’re on Viki, why should I even be surprised? Laughing.
I think you put real efforts and maybe too many efforts for something that doesn’t deserve the efforts you’re deploying, but still it’s just my opinion and you do as you like.
Ehm, what? I didn’t say that but I suppose it’s done too.
I do have some channel managers who know my work and would gladly give me a post but somehow when I get wind of the project, the post has already been grabbed. I believe some people have their phone with notifications on day and night, or something.
Well, I already do that. If you look at my project page I have more projects as an English editor than Italian mod.
But hey, it’s my native language, after all, and the one I know best, much better than English. I do have a wonderful team whom I love working with, so every now and then I do want to work with them.
Greek is also my native language, but good Greek subbers are too few, I end up re-writing every single sub, which is no fun.
You mean being CM and Italian moderator on the same drama?
I think I say that because I only think of the global population and not 1 country speakers only.
The work you did on English edition has more meaning for other languages or for the global population on Viki because it helps all languages.
That’s why if you’d go into Italian moderations, you will make some other languages unhappy.
I hope you won’t give up on English edition.
No, I said that there are CMs who would give me a post. Since there’s already a CM how would they give me their own post?
(Unless I didn’t understand your question)
Awww, that’s sweet of you. No, I won’t, I love doing it. Especially when I am with a “certain someone” as Chief Editor.
Ah no, I thought you meant that the only way you could be Italian mod was to be the CM of the drama and then you could recruit yourself as Italian moderator.
Lol you have to ask the day the CM is picked.
Let’s not talk about it, it’s going to be a big debate in which I’m already exhausted just from thinking about it. Sorry about that (honestly).
Have a good day!
Yes, that’s what I said on my first post. But then we discussed something else, about the other CMs who know me and could give me the post but I usually am not quick enough. And you asked about that part, whether they would also give me CM and mod.
Argh! Communication gap. What’s wrong with us these days?