That actually sounds more complicated to me, and more prone to inaccurancy. So basically, the subber has to do the job of the segmenter by finding out where exactly the segment has to start?
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Back in 2018 NF was hiring in various languages and I did an entrance test (I passed but after an exchange of a few mails, including the preliminary signing of a NDA, the person never got back to me again, completely disappeared). And yes, the test included subtitling and segmenting at the same time as you are supposed to do both. That’s why you’re paid 1000 dollars per 1-hour episode!
It’s basically the same principle, you have to listen carefully where the voice starts and yes, there are sound waves. It’s not easier nor more difficult. The same skills are needed, only that it’s one person doing both at the same time. And since the person is a translator, they know what’s being said, which makes it slightly easier - once the skill is acquired.
Of course they have their own rules for all that, which are slightly different than ours.
Here are the rules for what they call “Timing” (there are example drawings of sound waves after each explanation):
Timing
- Timing to Audio: Subtitles should be timed to the audio or, if necessary, within 3 frames of the audio. If more time is required for better reading speed, the out-time can be extended up to 12 frames past the timecode at which the audio ends.
- Timing to Shot Changes: It is good practice to avoid subtitles that cross the shot changes whenever possible, as this is disruptive to the viewing experience.
- Dialogue that crosses shot changes: when dialogue crosses the shot change the timecodes should be adjusted to either be at the shot change or at least 12 frames from it.
If dialogue starts between 8-11 frames (green zone) before the shot change, the in-time should be moved up to 12 frames before the shot change.
If dialogue starts 7 frames or less (red zone) before the shot change, the in-time should be moved to the shot change.
If dialogue ends between 8-11 frames (green zone) after the shot change, the out-time should be moved out to 12 frames after the shot change.
If dialogue ends 7 frames or less (red zone) after the shot change, time code out should be moved to the shot change, respecting the two-frame gap.
If there is one subtitle before and one after the shot change, the second one should start on the shot change, and the first should end two frames before.
I don’t know how much time are 12 frames, if they are the equivalent of our 1 second, and also why they want a 2-frame gap everywhere.
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Most videos you play on Netflix should be 23.976 frames per second . So 12 frames is equivalent to 1/2 second
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A half a second extension is not a lot. Which is probably one of the reasons why many of their subtitles are very short, mostly at the expense of the language flair, and sometimes accuracy/completeness.
This an example of one job (segmenting) messing up everything downstream.
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Yes, you can see that in the subtitle recommendations.
1. Duration
Minimum duration: 5/6 second per subtitle event (e.g. 20 frames for 24fps)
Maximum duration: 7 seconds per subtitle event3. Frame Gap
2 frames minimum (regardless of frame rate)5. Line Treatment
2 lines maximum
Always keep the text on one line, unless it exceeds the character limitation. Follow these basic principles when the text has to be broken into 2 lines:
The line should be broken
- after punctuation marks
- before conjunctions
- before prepositions
The line break should not separate
- a noun from an article
- a noun from an adjective
- a first name from a last name
- a verb from a subject pronoun
- a prepositional verb from its preposition
- a verb from an auxiliary, reflexive pronoun or negation
Although I don’t understand “keep the text on one line” when they say it can be “2 lines maximum”. Maybe they intend what they called “Forced narrative” (things outside of the dialogue, like inscriptions, plaques and such?)
Anyway. I prefer our style too, it helps understanding the culture much better. Provided it’s segmented properly.
BTW, @cgwm808, someone went and messed your segments in All About My Romance. An abuser maybe? I’ll tell you the details in chat.
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@bozoli
A half a second extension is not a lot. Which is probably one of the reasons why many of their subtitles are very short, mostly at the expense of the language flair, and sometimes accuracy/completeness
I Honestly find no problem with
Summary
Netflix/Prime/ Disney etc…
regarding their subtitles accuracy or completeness. On the other hand, lately I have encountered here at RVIKI many dramas/movies that have incomplete/fragmented sentence, and I made mention of that, and even wrote an example I took from a drama’s scene.
But in this case, I blame the editors in the drama bc if the next sentence doesn’t complete the incomplete sentence; they need to get in touch with the person in charge so it can be fixed, and not leave it the way it is, and I saw as a subtitle (which is wrong anyway). Now, I’m writing about English and Spanish only: The 2 language I know. NOT any OL since I can’t give opinion on a language I don’t even know.
There are several other sites that I have encountered those issues/problems, but I can’t complain since they are Free sites. Not much can be expected in those kind of situation. They don’t even give you any options to complain/give feedback about the subtitles or any other issues.
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Was the drama already released to OL when you watched it?
I can’t say anything more since I signed a paper where you can’t disclose anything you do at that ''site?* place? Any legal document signed by us makes us liable even if is 10 years from now.
PS.
@mirjan_465
Was the drama already released to OL when you watched it?
As far as I know in the 2 language Eng/Span: YES.
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I think is just that; we get used to it, and we find it easier. But any system we try at first will take a while to get the ‘‘hang’’ of it. I personally found the other segmenting method way easier (but workload was insurmountable for me so I quit) lol
PS. I have health issues that complicate things for me a bit…
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VIKI has an outdated segmenting platform, one that is prone to both user and systemic error. While that was not my original concern, it is worth mentioning because it can deter people from engaging. I caption and subtitle professionally and as a nonprofit volunteer. There are several upgrades that could be made to the VIKI platform to not only improve user experience but also increase production quality and quantity of output. That being said, if there have not been any improvements since before 2012, then I suspect there won’t be any time soon.
As for pre-burned subs… that is a whole 'nother topic. I don’t take those contracts professionally unless they are quality review because editing requires more keystrokes which increases the amount of time that I have to spend on a project and those are not billable hours. I do them here because with my work and school schedule, I don’t have a choice and it needs to be done. Especially if it is a show that I plan on watching.
And there is some truth that can be said about the demise. I am sure for many, like myself, ONE of the reasons that they signed up to contribute originally was the perks. Not everyone can afford a monthly subscription and now maybe even fewer can afford to give the time it takes to earn those perks. Unless the scoring system improves, there may be challenges ahead. With the current system, I do not believe that I would be able to make QC let alone maintain it. I applaud those that do.
I appreciate the feedback and engagement, as it has been most enlightening. My schedule has always been limited. And although I can only afford a couple of hours over 14 days, equally spread across three months and those days are usually Mondays, I am still willing to contribute as I am sure many others would be too. I understand that this is not the most ideal. However, no one deserves to be made to feel that their contributions are meaningless. Remember my original post was expressing frustration over the current tool that was supposed to help match people to projects that need help and how it doesn’t work. To which I was able, thanks to many here, to find work-arounds and alternatives and most importantly, projects to work on.
Thank you for all your hard work. I appreciate you all.
Best regards,
Fyre
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When was this? Last time I did any volunteer work at viki only the CM and the original segmenter could delete a segment.
That just cheapens the experience and will make the most devoted volunteers not want to volunteer (or as much) anymore. They shouldn’t ever mix up the volunteers with a payment system.
The ones on the boat don’t realize its sinking down until they see the water at their feet.
Volunteering should not feel like an obligation or compulsion.
Ideally, there would dozens of people to segment and another set of dozens to subtitle. Viki was intended to be a community effort, not few people doing all the work and everyone else enjoying the fruit of the labor.
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I think the person was a CE and All language Moderator? I can’t remember much, but it was either year; 2020 or 2021. Anyway, there’s no problem for certain ‘‘teams’’ to do things for others in their team that their ‘‘buddy’’ can’t do, although is morally wrong; this is what I call the ‘‘controlling teams’’ buddy system. I have no doubt a person in charge of segments did it for ‘‘her’’ fully knowing that what they were doing was wrong. They also must have known that when I reported the incident to Viki staff nothing was going to be done about it.
ilikedeadclowns
Volunteering should not feel like an obligation or compulsion.
Viki was intended to be a community effort, not few people doing all the work
What you are not realizing that what RViki wanted for the community, and what controlling teams wanted themselves; was 2 different things. The controlling groups wanted to ‘‘hog’’ all the work in their buddy system, so their segmenters/subbers/translators/ were always the first on line, and when others wanted to work on the segments, translating or doing subtitles, they would say it was ‘‘close’’ or ‘‘full’’ and they continuously ignored the request to open the segment timer so you could do a part in segmenting a drama or to be added in the team as a translator or subber. Unless of course, you was one of their ‘‘team buddy buddy system’’ Now, they play they ‘‘added you’’ in the team, but they also do everything in their possibilities to make you leave the team.
If you look around (not worth it anymore since finally changes are taking effect; hopefully, FINALLY this ''buddy system WILL END). Some segmenters have millions and billions of segments (observe same names/ group of people). Do more research same group of people that jumped from drama to drama. Hopefully, that will soon end COMPLETELY. If I was a CEO/Investor I would not like to have people controlling a system that can be affected when it comes to QUALITY issues. You see, these controlling group teams in their obsession to hog the next project would sacrifice QUALITY in so many ways.
Ironically, NOW they are able to do one more of their NEW tricks; so you see in the drama one person as moderator in several language, and they also are only ‘‘moderator’’ so they found another way to ‘‘hog’’ some positions that others wanting to do it, won’t have a chance to do. They found their way around bc they swear they have the ‘‘upper hand,’’ but hopefully they can stop this vicious cycle that in the long wrong will affect this site. I JUST can’t understand their obsession of hogging dramas and not letting others willing and able to do it, to also join and be part of the team.
I hope the CEO’s/ investors can take full control of this situation, and create a system where no TEAM whether the Spanish, Portuguese, German team, etc etc can take over at this site, and do things their way. They need to stop them ''controlling groups completely; so that QUALITY and Quantity can work hand in hand for the benefit of this site, and the fairness to all who are able and willing to do this free volunteer work with all the best intentions in their heart. I BELIEVE the main culprit of this compulsion and obsession comes from the QC CONTRIBUTION COUNT system. They need to look into eliminating that from here since that’s the main reason why controlling groups are formed since they want their count to go up and up and up…
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I would suggest looking here in the Discussions Forum as requests for Segmenters and Volunteers in general are often posted in Discussions forum. Or you can make a post in Discussions Forum yourself saying that you are looking for a project. The downside is that the posts can be difficult to find sometimes in Discussions Forum as they can be “pushed down” by new posts or new replies over time.
That said, K Drama “Cruel Temptation” is urgently looking for Segmenters for anyone looking for an opportunity. Contact the CS or the CM directly.
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Well, that might be because we don’t have many CS, and that’s why you see the same people. Trying to find a CS or even a segmenter that’s not overworked has been hard lately.
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The problem with this drama is even if you can watch it being in Europe, you can’t have access if you’re not in US with Viki Pass Plus, no matter if you’re part of the team or not. So not many volunteers can help working on this one, apart if they are in US.
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I’m not talking about the recent seggers (CS included) working here now. I didn’t even bothered looking into their profile. I should have…
But I very highly doubt they have anything close to even million segments done.
With the specific situation that is going on here now, and due to the new changes; that limits people chosen as (seggers), and gaining entrance into the segment timer, and many other new stuff (changes) going around at this site, there’s no way I can see that happening now ( that is such high numbers in segments done by same group of ppl).
The Contribution Count system created a lot of competition (hogging) in here in the past, so I was mainly writing stuff that happened in the past ; now from what I have read, they are not even adding segment count for the new seggers, who are busting their *** doing/making segments or adjusting/fixing the segs. Why would I think there is a possibility of this to be happening now? (million/Billion segs done? no way…). I believe you when you wrote here that the new seggers are overworked, and hard to find. The NSSA Academy also needs to have new changes done that will put them up to date with the new changes going on in here. They also need more people training the new seggers.
But in my personal opinion, one thing all volunteers here have to accept and that is; ANY Volunteer Work, is a work/job done from our heart, and for our own well being and satisfaction to do a work/job that may be THANKLESS/HARD/ NOT REWARDED, but a volunteer work we ourselves chose to do, and since no one promised us a rose garden, we should never expect anything less. If we feel frustrated in any way, we just stop doing it because is not like we’ll break any contract and get penalized in any way (well maybe the viki pass standard/plus).
But… is that viki pass reward, worth the frustration and anger I sense in many ppl. here now? If is worth it, give it your 100% as a volunteer, and accept things that we have no control to change. If you feel it’s not worth it, then, just let it go bc there are plenty out there waiting in line for their turn, and no one needs to feel wronged when they are trying to do things right.
PS. So… in reality I was never including the new segmenters working here now as seggers, and I should have been more specific on that bc it might have created a misunderstanding. I hope I cleared that out now. I’m so glad I didn’t join the world of segmenting here (unless I see changes that will be fair to all of us volunteers, who offer our service for free and from our hearts). It’s only fair.
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Oh, my. I did not know that. Thanks for the information.
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Chinese Reality Show Heart Signal 6 is looking for Segmenters for anyone looking for an opportunity. Contact the CM or the CS.
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