Contributors who want to demotivate other contributors on purpose

General Discussion
75

Hey Cherry,

It’s sad what happened to you, I understand what you wanted to do, it’s coming from a good intention (I don’t know many people who want to take over a drama, it’s more tiring to fix than to begin from scratch so I think you did it thinking that it would help viewers to watch it).

If Viki gave you this channel (I don’t know which one, who are in the story, nevermind), maybe they found your request legit. On the other hand, it’s best to first send a message to the CM (as you did) and the English team, moderators, segmenters to ask about the situation since they were/are working on this drama and if they agree to modify things, ask for their help, others’ help on this matter…
Communication is really important, especially to the current members since they spent many hours on it and we’re a team.

Be sure too to know how to edit and/or to fix segments if it’s decided that you will do the work.

If you take a channel from scratch as a CM, it will be less tedious. Don’t give up after 1 particular experience (you really didn’t pick the easy way) :slight_smile:

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76

Even if I have asked the English team, they would not be able to do anything, since only the CM can delete those empty 1-sec. segment.
I did not even ask Viki to add me as the CM, I asked them to fix the segments and they told me they’ll add me as a CM to fix it myself.
Only thing I did was remove those empty segments and add new language moderators who wanted to work on the show. I did not touch the subs at all or change the time/duration of any segment.

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77

I don’t understand well.
Maybe there were intruders when the CM wasn’t here and they added segments later, it’s really weird. Maybe some bug and episodes became unlocked, we never know.
Normally, not only the CM can delete empty segments. Maybe the current team didn’t notice that empty segments were added later.

Maybe Viki thought that you might encounter empty segments + wrong subtitled segments (dots etc) while fixing, so they “had” to put you CM. And to lock/unlock segments, you “had” to be CM.

On the principle, I understand you.
In Viki FAQ, an ep has to show like + 97 % or 98 %? I forgot the right number but it’s something like that.
And as a viewer, if some see 80 %, they won’t watch because they would think that it’s not completed.

It’s cool that you add new moderators, it’s a way to let other audiences watch it while the other CM is not here. Normally, Viki would add a coCM in cases like that, to add new moderators if one CM is absent.

It’s solved then :slight_smile:

79

The CM did not lock the segments at all, that is why anyone could have come in and added segments.

Maybe they also wanted someone to add anyone who would like to volunteer, since the CM did not reply or be active for more than 6 months.
.

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80

I see, so the % could have gone lower and it could have been worst! Hopefully, it’s closed today.
Thank you :slight_smile:

As for why it was/became unlocked, we don’t know for sure why, maybe a bug, maybe something else… We can’t say for sure.
There are a lot of maybe on my part, without knowing whole details, we can’t say things for sure and explain why, how. Without knowing more, it’s letting the benefit of the doubt and let’s turn the page, what’s important is that it’s fixed.

You know, you will meet a lot of different people with a lot of different reactions in a similar situation. It’s dealing with people without seeing/hearing them, with feelings, with their personality, with subjectivity, with their own perception of what is right and true, with their own experience on Viki, with misunderstanding (as I misunderstood the situation when reading the original post), with group effect (we tend to protect, defend, agree with our friends, normal), etc.
Sometimes, I understand people who chose not to speak.

When I talked about it to my friend, she told me, “Yes, maybe what she did was coming from a good motive for the drama, but if I was on the team and someone was suddenly coming in the channel modifying subtitles/segments without telling anything to the team, I would be a little upset because maybe, I will have to go back and change/edit previous subtitles which we already spent time on, like doing it again, and it’s team work that’s why I think it’s important to say something to the team before doing something”. (But reading your latest answers, we understand that it’s not about modifying subtitles so “it’s not that important” (= no negative impact like additional sub editing work, etc. but it’s still necessary to say something to the team before)

My reaction was different from her, for me:
1-There’s a problem = 80 % translated and problem with abusers segments

2-A solution = you tried to find a solution (on your own or not) and sought Viki for it. Viki’s solution = you becoming CM.

3-Viki’s solution = final decision for me whatever people can say afterwards, Viki is the referee on matters on channels, between volunteers because it would be more objective than us, volunteers who have friends, who have personal interests, who have many things that Viki doesn’t have and it’s in Viki’s interest to assure channel’s well being (like the regulator State).

4-Is the problem solved? Yes.

But it’s not because we had different visions on this matter and different reactions to it that she’s not my friend anymore or we didn’t become mad at each other. We interact to share the way we see things, learn more and maybe change it if it’s wrong (and it’s also what this forum is for me, a place to interact and exchange same/divergent visions and change/improve).
So what I mean is, for her, it’s normal to say something to the team (even if it’s you who will fix it and nobody can do anything). It was something really important for her to say.
For me, I was more focusing on finding an answer to a given problem and whoever brings a solution, it’s quickly fixed (and maybe, it looks more like your way of functioning? I think I quite recognize myself in what you say XD As a consequence, if I had a problem on a channel while I would be away unreachable and someone was correctly fixing it for me, I would be like “Alleluia, thanks a lot!” but it’s because how I function that I have this reaction and maybe a few function the same and what I understand is everyone, every volunteer on Viki doesn’t function the same way as we do). And when she exposed her pov, I agreed with her that yes, she was right, communication is something we can’t avoid even if our good intention is here. So, that’s something that I should have added in my previous scheme.

  • The other point that seems to be written here is the response to your intervention on the drama and your reaction to it.

It’s this sentence that makes me say “you didn’t pick the easy way”, I meant “It would be best to be elsewhere than here when being appointed CM by Viki” or “If CM or to decide if being CM is for us or not, better to take some example elsewhere or to try somewhere else where there’s no problem at first hand (from scratch)”.

It’s this sentence, this feeling of yours that I found a pity. You decided this because of this experience, it was not comfortable for you. And how much did you perceive this response negatively to make you take this decision?

So I just wanted to say, don’t give up on trying being CM because this time when Viki appointed you CM has been bad on this drama, it was a really particular case.

And honestly, if I see a CM who fixes himself his own channel, I would tend to think that this person wouldn’t be a bad CM.
As a volunteer, I shouldn’t discourage potential volunteers who might do a good job on being CM.
Don’t be discouraged by it, maybe take some step back, or let time do the rest if it’s not already done. Just know that we have different reactions and I would have had a different reaction and my friend too, so maybe elsewhere where you will be CM, you will enjoy it a lot :slight_smile:

81

Is there a reason for the nssa French academy to be frozen since more than 3 years?
I have see no progress since my arrival.

Is it a way not to form editors and moderators (potential competitors?)
Or are senseis lazy?

I can say I don’t have time for 3 years to build the academy, but I can’t understand the reason to stay as senseis when others could build this academy because they have time.

If I don’t have time for more than 3 years (and more?) to participate in a project even by 1%, why do I continue on this project?

Why?

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82

@deval_chloe thanks for your pm. I’m not talking about you, so don’t take the blame for you personnally. It would be unfair.
I’m talking about French senseis that were in charge of the French academy since more than 3 years ago and who today have left the same Academy in the same state and still pretend being in charge of this academy.
I exclude recent French senseis, French senseis who took leave bec they are sick (normal) or because they are not on Viki anymore.
I’m talking about senseis who are active on Viki but who haven’t contributed on the academy project since 3 years, hence blocking the French community to develop. How many times we asked? If they find anymore excuses to delay it for 10 years, it just means… they don’t really care enough to find time or motivation for it.
I’m talking about especially 1 sensei (the same 1 I’m talking about this week who dares quote me the break paragraph whereas if I can’t watch some dramas on my phone in French, it’s for a reason (“cosmetic breaks”) and if editing the breaks by putting them before the word “and” instead of after “and” is considered editing, then I’m going to ask a viewer who doesn’t understand a word in my language to add breaks mid-sentence. At least, he would have a Viki pass for that.
Exactly the same French mod who dares lie without batting an eye on Disqus and in Pm to take over some dramas as moderators and uses a secondary account for that.
Exactly the same who lied saying “oh I didn’t pick this drama, the Cm just appointed me on all her dramas.”
And so? You don’t have the heart to say no or see that it’s unfair for other mods here?
Or do you think other mods are not enough good and you’re the only one who can do it?
And you dare manipulate me to believe in your fake kind words and CM who believed you were someone else and gave a chance to someone else?

I have no lessons to learn from a volunteer like that and if she represents the nssa academy, I believe even more that this community is rotten to the core and infairness reigns here. If this behaviour represents the nssa, then I am happy I’ve thought I’d never be good enough to be a sensei in this academy. Some awfullly lack humility and don’t care. No ethics and no fairplay.

Where is the post where the CM using an alternate account has been warned?
For moderators, it is all right to do the same?

Other mods, volunteers and me have worked playing fairplay, so why should I stay silent when I encounrer unfairness? I don’t agree with this behaviour and this practice. If other mods decide to do the same, where do we go?

83

I know I’m ready to give up and leave Viki, I want to find a place that I can help out and not feel bad because I asked to help. I basically told I wasn’t good enough to donate my time.

84

I’m not taking the blame for me personnally, I just wanted to explain some things (since you were saying “French academy is frozen”).

And indeed, if a CM just added a Moderator like that, the Moderator should check and see with the Channel Manager to stop that, it’s unfair towards all other volunteers. If someone wants to be Moderator she has to ask by herself, not just to be added without asking anything.

85

The current standards for segmenting: having done nssa or seg101 courses and be graduated.

If you have little time to contribute in segmenting, I can only advise you to look for:
-not on air channels => ecause the standards they most have are: having time to contribute and parts to segment really disappear fast, so even if you go in there, you won’t be able to find a part to segment (or luckily the time the ep are uploaded, you’re free)
-Chinese dramas with lots of episodes => but the main stop I think you will receive is: not enough experience in historical dramas for ex (depends on the CM or chief segger)

  • if it has been a long time you haven’t segmented and forgot some things, I know that you can ask some nssa senseis for 1 check or 2 for parts that you segmented. Go to nssa page to contact a sensei who can check 1 or 2 parts you did, so for people who won’t accept you, you can ask the sensei to give a recommendation because she has checked 1 or 2 parts you did.

For editing/subtitling:
-subtitling: I think it should be all right if your translation is correct. But you should tell beforehand if you won’t have a lot of time to volunteer. So people can look for more ppl. Some moderators limit the number of volunteers in their team.
-editing: same, but most editors work with ppl they already know and who has good level. So I think you will have more chance to be accepted if you take not on air channels.

Showing goodwill is not enough because most ppl won’t trust you immediately or won’t give you a chance just because you ask in some positions.
So build some experience.

=>Contact directly CM or moderators on the drama page. The wall of volunteers is just below reviews on each page.

Good luck!

86

So they waited that you come for things to move? I hope you won’t have to do all the work while other active French senseis cross their arms and wait to reap the fruits of what you did.

Just an advice because we got on well:

Protect yourself well. Among senseis, some might try to manipulate you with fake words or let you do all/almost all the work and take credits for your work. Don’t let others take credits for what you did.
Some might find excuses that they’re sorry and don’t have time, but don’t care in truth and still be pretending they participated on what you did or will help you on 1 item and will let you do the rest.

So don’t believe everything a French sensei can say and don’t let others use you on this.

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87

Don’t worry, I’m not the only one working on it. :slight_smile:
And thanks for the advice, I will take it into consideration.

88

Thanks for your encouraging PM!
I think I know who you’re talking about since there were some posts on Disqus that you wrote. It’s the same CM/editor I’m talking about who always takes the same French moderator. So it’s not a surprise.

Somehow, being on Viki trains you to recognize lies and deceit. Like people really want to bully/use or make others gullible… Once, they appear kind to others like on this forum, like on a Disqus comment because they never show a certain side to others, but in private messages to some other volunteers, it’s totally different. They will show you another side. They hide really well who they are. So even for Viki or other volunteers who have never been confronted to this type of PM from certain volunteers, it’s not easy I suppose to know this or to recognize it.
2-faced, exactly.
Hard to believe for volunteers, it’s exactly what you say. Don’t believe in goodness in every volunteer just because they are volunteers and don’t share real life matters with people whose conduct is questionable, because you can’t trust them.

The same CM/editor wanted me to have on dramas I manage only 1 editor as CE, TE, GE altogether whereas she’s not native in Chinese.
So I tried to be fair and ask that we accept other editors in the team, try with a TE… Finally, it was impossible to find a common ground to work together, but I tried to work together, no?
And all editors I have, she doesn’t get on well with… They already fight on a previous drama. So I think we’re talking about the same person?
How come the same CM/Editor had tedious relationships with many other editors/CM already?
Where does the problem lie?

Some can’t work in editing teams. Incompatible, because they never concede and always want to have the final say or control everything or they will always be right for them (even if it’s wrong). So incompatible for some to work together.

(Oh, she even recommended new subber(s) in Chinese (that she refused on her own dramas) to participate on dramas I manage whereas their knowledge in Chinese was questionable. If it’s not sabotaging other dramas by making wrong recommendations, then tell me the contrary. So trying to disguise a deed by putting it as a favor by “Oh, I’m helping you find new subbers,” tell me.)

The same with the French mod I’m talking about, I can’t work with volunteers who create secondary accounts or ask their subbers to take a drama for them so they can be the real mod. I can’t deal with this greediness. We’re not alone in this community, but they act as if they’re alone.

Why creating a secondary account to ask for moderation otherwise? If it’s not greediness, tell me what it is.
If it’s fair toward other mods, tell me.

So if ppl want to hide and PM me, I won’t answer.
If they have something to tell, don’t hide and tell me directly here instead of using PM to hide their deeds or try to manipulate again. In PM or closed doors, they do and say what they want. And it’s never punished or known, it’s making use of PM system to act like a bully.

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90

when i see a contributor which has in the end of the month till 30.000 or more segs or subs, then i also don’t know how they do this or if they eveb have a private life. viki is not the whole world… it doens’t make money, food, etc…

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91

I understand what you mean, and I’ve often wondered the same about a person who was every single week in the list of top ten contributors. But… We don’t know each person’s circumstances. For some people with difficult situations, Viki might be an escape and a consolation. Let’s not judge.

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92

i don´t jugde them, no worry. i am just surprised everytime

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93

I was also speaking to myself at the same time. Because sometimes I also think it’s strange and I get suspicious. And sometimes I also think some people do a sloppy job, and that’s why they are so productive. I definitely know this to be true in some instances. People who never revise what they do. In some other cases, one may be just very quick because s/he is a seasoned professional. Or, as I said before, they might be going through something and Viki takes her mind off unpleasant real-life stuff.
There are many different reasons, so I’m telling myself that we cannot know which it is - unless of course we know the person and the situation.

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94

I suggested to piranna that we take the discussion about NSSA subtitling academies to another thread. For instance, this one:
https://discussions.viki.com/t/how-to-become-a-better-subtitler-subtitle-academy-for-each-language/18200
What do you think?

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98

Linking to another post in regards to this topic:
https://discussions.viki.com/t/subtitle-formatting/608/21?u=piranna

99

Most people don’t understand / don’t want to believe in it because they have never experienced it personally.

1.Some ppl understand, they’ve sent me PM after these posts. They exactly know what I’m talking about because they have already experienced it with the same ppl.


2.I don't think it's a question of whom. It's a question of what. What is right or wrong to do. If I have said that this person was anonymous and such, most people would have said that what has been done is not acceptable. Just because of what has been done, and not because of the identity of a person.

If I focused only on facts, my opinion remains the same.
If others would focus only on facts, what about their opinion?


3.
-it’s not easy to know someone totally,
-it’s even harder if the person hides some parts very well and only shows a certain part, so it’s easy to be fooled if you are not “in”

=> would ppl be aware of that if I have stayed silent?
Probably not.
Exactly.
Because it is really hidden, shown to some targeted volunteers and it’s hard to even think that it’s possible.
That’s why I say only the few who experienced it can know what I’m talking about.


4.Mods who will protect this type of behavior have not experienced it, but if they had, they would probably have the same reaction than others and me. Some mods will protect this type of individuals because deep inside, they want to keep their precious position/future position.
5.If your neighbor has robbed someone, just because your neighbor hasn't robbed you (yet) or that you have a good relationship with him or that you don't know his hidden activities, it doesn't mean that your neighbor is not a robber or a good person and that ppl can protect this person.
6.And by protecting, they just invite ppl to do the same or continue. It's legitimizing this kind of behavior. Being passive in front of an accident = you haven't done anything to stop that. Just because you have not seen or experienced it, it doesn't mean that it's not real.
=> Just pointing that means that there's something wrong with this community. There are people who conduct not correctly, but other ppl don't react or are afraid to react. But you can't always be afraid and hide or turn a blind eye, you let ppl continue and finally gives the signal that others can do the same. It will continue and other people will have to experience what you have experienced, if you can stop it, you should react and not hide because you want peace.
=> I feel we lose something really important along the way being in this community. For what price finally? Are some ready to sell a part of their soul or integrity for a position or a drama? Are some people ready to hurt other volunteers for a position or a drama? I sometimes wonder. It's unsettling to think that.
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