I’m currently in an American high school, and boy… my English class doesn’t really teach grammar. Sure, they go over it here and there, but they never really sit down with us and have a whole unit on it. Like sophie2you said, we really just focus on writing essays about literature and books/stories we read in English class. I’ve only had one unit of grammar lessons in my life so far, which was in junior high. Learned a decent amount of grammar in that class, but improved A LOT by watching how Viki editors edit (different styles of editing) and learning on my own along the way.
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You should sign up for the NSSA English academy! They’re sure busy with segmenting academy already, and the subbing academy isn’t open yet, so I don’t know if they’ll take you in as a student. I already have my subbing badge for English, so maybe I can help you if they cannot. I’d love to help you. From what I’ve seen, you’re doing so wonderfully that one would think you’re a native English speaker; I’m not joking. I’d actually love to have you edit with me some day. 
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This is probably one of the most common types of awkward sentences, typically by newer subtitlers. The Korean sentence could have omitted the subject “I” and started with the direct object “This person”. Korean word order is Subject Object Predicate. Because of the use of particles to denote the dative, nominative, accusative, etc. for nouns, word order is not crucial in Korean except that the predicate is always at the end. So the subber would have heard something like this: this person (accusative case) definitely to protect do my best. And rather than writing “I will definitely do my best to protect this person,” the subber, awkwardly for English, put the object first. Also, because there is no “real” third person pronoun (he/she/it/they) in Korean, for people, very often the Korean will say “This person”. So to make the sentence more natural for English, it probably would have been better to write “I will definitely do my best to protect her/him.” (Whichever gender was appropriate.
Another thing I would like to point out. One of the most common words commonly translated as “to protect”, 지키다 also means to take care of, look after, defend, observe, obey, keep, follow, guard, watch over – but 99% of the time the subbers will do “economy class” subbing and choose the hackneyed “protect” rather than considering if one of the other definitions of the word might be more appropriate.
“Like I at the Namyeong Station accident,
I’m not going to do things that I’ll regret later on.”
In this example, again, the subber did not structure the sentence to English word order. "I am not going to do something I will regret later as I did at the Namyeong Street accident. There is no need for the “on”; in English we should use “as” for a verb rather than “like” which is for nouns and adjectives. The Korean was probably “at the Namyeong Station accident I did as later regret thing not do.” Although it doesn’t matter where one puts adverbs of time and place, they typically precede the clause they belong to. If the sentence was stated across four segments, that was poor segmenting.
“Teacher, to be completely honest, why you picked me,
and why you’re trying to make me independent, and helping me and supporting me…
Is it okay if I ask you about this?” “to be completely honest” is just one word in Korean Korean sentence, Korean was to. If the sentence was stated across four segments, that was poor segmenting.
Korean was most probably "Teacher, to be completely honest, why you picked me,
and why you’re trying to make me independent, and helping me and supporting me…
to you to ask Is it okay " The subtitler did almost a literal word for word translation. Very very poor translation – when enumerating a list in Korean often the word “and” is added to each item in the list but in English we just put an and right befire the ultimate item in the list. It is not good translating to put all those ands in!! This is why I am extremely picky about English editors!!
What’s wrong with writing, "Teacher, honestly, Is it okay if I ask why have you picked me, tried to make me independent, helped and supported me?
I typically spend 5 hours editing a 1 hour episode.
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Aw, that was soooo sweet!
I think that usually we are taught foreign languages in a structured manner (grammar rules etc),but we learn our own naturally, growing up.
The Greek people I know who frequently make embarrassing mistakes in spelling and grammar rarely read books or care for a well-written document in any form. We are all taught the same rules, some care to learn and some don’t, unfortunately.
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I totally agree. It’s not enough to be a native speaker or have proficient command of a language to be an editor, because we can be influenced by the original language and/ or our own, without even noticing.
Editors must be even better.
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I understand now. I was also thinking that I went to Bilingual School and they were strict and not to mention the endless hours of homework we had to do.
Because by the time you went to high School you should have learned it in Middle school so if you never went to middle school in US you missed that part anyway.
I really don’t give gramma that that much importance here at this site bc it doesn’t matter. The viewers are not interested in any of that they just want to know what the actors are saying in the drama.
I disagree. I often quit watching after 1-2 episodes full of distracting subs.
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I don’t agree. We could just use Google if all is needed is a translation of words. There’s a reason we don’t do that.
I can’t imagine viewers have actually said that, I’ve only encountered people who care about good quality subs (some more vocally than others, but we know that).
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An id found this quote from subtitling textbook, “Death by incompetent subtitle.” She showed us some pictures from the book.
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sophie2you
An id found this quote from subtitling textbook, “Death by incompetent subtitle.” She showed us some pictures from the book.
Like someone you had in the drama Defendant that was doing bad english subs that affected my spanish subtitles and that is why I left the drama bc when I complaint about it they ‘‘gang on me’’ But you already know that anyway.
Here at viki’ s site a comma counts as a space and a segment holds the most 120 words? If we add a comma we lose a space. In my subs I had to sacrifice a comma or a period bc it doesn’t fit in the segments. It does affect the sentence but the viewers rarely care about that bc all they want to know what the actors are saying in the drama.
What does bother me when the English translated from Original language makes no sense during some of the translation and to me that only means one thing that the Asian Language subtitles were done by a use of some form of translator too. If you know the correct English language usage (or Spanish) you will fix the subtitle bc you know is incorrect. I never see any commas use here in the subs or even periods but like i said is an extra space subbers need as you very well know.
We have Seconds to read the sentence before it changes to the next scene and some segs are poor quality segments that jump right away to the next sentence: You really care about the comma or a period? Give me a break.
We need to make sure the translation in English make as much sense as possible to the viewers, not leaving us scratching our heads as to, what does that mean?
Which by the way happened in the drama where you are a CM? Mod? When I complaint in that drama about the English translations that was affecting my translations in Spanish I was given a whole speech of guidelines rules I was not following.
That is why I left the drama bc the quality of the spanish subs was affected by the badly subs done in English. . Funny thing you even send me a PM about it saying that you tried your best to fix the English in the drama, right?
It has improved I have to add (No bad english subs will stop me from watching that great actor in a drama that is also an interesting plot).
Like always imar you love to find faults instead of a solution. Showing me the importance of commas or periods for that matter are irrelevant here since we are LIMITED in space in the segments which can hold 120 words like LaCruiser stated as he is training me now.
What you are showing here is INCORRECT translations bc even with the use of commas the sentence will still be incorrect. Potato/ potatoes…
You really need to relax .
Many subbers here manage to work without omitting commas, you know…
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You can’t have a correct sentence without correct grammar, syntax and punctuation. “Correct words only” doesn’t cut it. If we don’t agree on this, there is no point in going on with this discussion.
If you think the viewers only care whether the boy told the girl “stay” or “leave” (because there is no other kind of dialogue in the world) then our views are fundamentally different.
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glykeria19m
You can’t have a correct sentence without correct grammar, syntax and punctuation. “Correct words only” doesn’t cut it. If we don’t agree on this, there is no point in going on with this discussion.
If you think the viewers only care whether the boy told the girl “stay” or “leave” (because there is no other kind of dialogue in the world) then our views are fundamentally different.
Go and watch every Korean drama here that says: I am going instead of I am leaving. How many complaints do you see in the comments about that?
How many times I write in time comments/comment section is not: I am going that is a present tense for you are going to go to the store or whatever… But, you see this time and time again in All korean subs I am going instead of I am leaving. (as they exit the door, office place etc…) I am Leaving not I am going. Bring me all the complaints here I bet they will be all my comments bc not once I’ve seen anyone saying any complains about that.
You are right End of Discussion bc there is none here I am not discussing I am stating my point of view which you seemed to disagree with and you are entitled to that. I understand what you are saying I don’t agree with it and I’m entitled to that too.
I rarely complain in the comments for things unrelated to the plot, the acting or the drama’s production. I am quite vocal in the forums, because I feel this the right place to give feedback. No complaints from me doesn’t mean I don’t care. I don’t believe I am the only one.
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And that is why when serious errors in timing, subs and English are discovered, the Channel Manager should act to make it right.
What constitutes a serious error? How about an episode released with absolutely NO editing done and bad timing…by a previous Channel Manager…
At least, that’s how I see it.
Even if someone else did it, the bottom line is if you are there completing a project, you are stuck fixing their work to make sure the drama is done correctly, to the best of your ability. Does it suck? Definitely.
But right is right. 
And this morning - I’ve realized that the only way I can escape having to fix errors of the past I have inherited with these dramas is to finally get an on-air drama of my own - where I FINALLY can say who does what from the start, and work with the best to produce the best. I am getting very tired of fixing the dusty misdeeds of past persons, and spending my entire day doing that. BECAUSE IT MUST BE DONE. Those who know better MUST act or be part of the problem.
Hear my plea, O Viki Overlords, and grant me a great and challenging drama I desire to bring to the world, with a Team with high ideals and great work ethic and tools that work properly and preserve our labors correctly… virtual joss sticks and rabbits’ feet adorn the altar
(no funny name for this, sorry. it’s not a laughing matter.)
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I am wondering when the Spanish Team starts translating?
It is hard to say that the grammar is great or horrid because depending on when you start the outcomes are different. I think the moderator should bring concerns to CM when the subtitles are really confusing or at the very least address them on TD. English subtitlers, and other editors of the English team do then give context or at the very least correct the mistake.
Some items in Defendant I corrected/edited whatever for clarity like 2 or 3 weeks post airing because I really didn’t have time to comb through every ep every part in segment timer (also to adjust segments, create missing segments).
Has it occurred to you that using perfectly accurate English translations (e.g. You came you arrived vs. Welcome) might not have occurred to our subtitlers at all? Your question of “save me,” made me realize that “spare me” is a perfectly good term too. For easier subs like this…many subtitlers probably run on auto-pilot. I know I do.
There was an instance where having too many editors who had absolutely no knowledge of the target language (even knowing just the alphabet helps) caused a subtitle to be reverted five times? So there is this efficiency aspect to consider as well. The three people I did turn down when I was briefly a channel manager were not ready to subtitle. One really has iffy native language understanding and admitted to other users they are making things up. By some definitions of this site, this person is an abuser! The other one was not translating when given a sample audition. The chief editor likes to give sample auditions just to show the person what exactly he or she is signing up for. This person only described the scene and actually…the description was also off unfortunately. The last person was a plagiarizer. She has done this only one one channel and on hundreds of subtitles. However the other editors believe they are walking a straight and narrow path. I think…these reasons are just enough for politely declining their help.
I don’t think I turned down any editors actually. Ever? The chief editor at the time preferred smaller teams again… we don’t want to go through 7-8 versions of one subtitle, and if there are too many who have the power to edit, it could slow things down…a lot.
So I guess it is the team? But the team is saturated with those who are correcting English grammar. I think if you were to allow every dick, harry, and jane onto the team, chaos would ensue. Currently having too many subtitlers on one of the channels I contribute is causing a huge headache. This is no blessing. I don’t check for plagiarism, yet I do sense inconsistencies. As a translation editor one gets the sense of the skill level of an ID based on how they translate. When one id cannot tell “left” from “right” yet completes subtitles with multiple old proverbs deriving from Ancient Chinese stories that I didn’t know… that is saying something. (I am an 87-100% subtitler of legal dramas, medical dramas, historical dramas, police dramas.)
I am not sure how things are on the Chi-Eng teams since I only watch as a viewer.
Bad subtitles or no subtitles…hmm… I think most prefer bad subtitles? At least I do. Though it is unpleasant, I really would really rather understand absolutely anything. BTW the older dramas are very much not worked on unless they are being fixed. The original team is probably out of commission for years and sometimes permanently. (for example…I do not ever plan on checking on Queen Insoo unless I rewatch and catch an error. I watched 3x already without subtitles in the past.)
This might sound rude, but do you recall that other thread you had created and many people had hurt feelings? I think softening your tone might help make this thread more conducive to a productive discussion with no hurt feelings. Hope this helps give you some perspective.
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