Viki

Moderators who hoard channels


#210

Are we talking about a conversation where Person A messages Person B or about some group message in which one person is being attacked? Cause that would make a huge difference.

Yes, but the editor doesn’t have a crystal ball. Release dates are not always clear, when other editors will finish is never known in advance and in some cases, those editors even forget to pass on the message that they are ready. Then there is the very demotivating behavior of som CMs and OL moderators that cause further delay and that could not possibly have been predicted.

That’s great, but you still needed to finish the projects you were involved in at the time. At least, I don’t assume you just abandoned them. Responsibility also means finishing what you started, regardless of the circumstances.
So, yes, we can learn and grow, but that will take a transition period.

Actually, new CMs are often extra pushy because they get easily overwhelmed by the demands of the OL mods. And personally, I have never blamed anyone just for being new or friendly, let alone exploited them.


#211

Honestly, I think that I do my best to respect someone and their work and understand them to some extent. But sometimes I’m not sure if I can explain some things rationally. It sounds like those projects were abducted to punish those insolent OL mods and CMs. I’m aware that there were different approaches to handle the situation, and while I wouldn’t just ignore the current state and start translating like some people do… I kinda hope this isn’t just considered wishful thinking.

I’ve not seen results from neither of those. Furthermore, if a CE doesn’t use TD people rather try to message the CM since they are available in there. There might be reasons I won’t discuss here, but it remains to be an obstacle that encourages to have the CM as a spokesperson in such case.
I check my projects from time to time. How far the editing progressed, it’s easy to see even without TD. So if there wasn’t an announcement for quite some time, even though the editing has seemingly been finished… I ask them.

While not accepting new ones, indeed. It might be tough for a short while, but not for many months. In the worst case, I’d rather accept defeat. Here they say “Better a horrible end than endless horror”.

Personally, I shared my expectations, they were agreeable, and it worked out twice. But no one ever messaged me with “I want 3 episodes this week, why are you so slow?” (except for viewers) - I think most people wouldn’t bother unless it’s a significant delay for a long time. I mean, there’s no point in arguing if everything is “fine”.


#212

If a CE doesn’t have access to TD, then using it is not an option. That is no reason not to contact said CE. Some CMs may pass on the message, but not all of them do, and in those cases the CE doesn’t hear anything until all hell breaks loose.

You can see if they worked on it at all, not if they are ready. And if there is an agreement to send a message, then I expect them to do so. And of course there would come a point that I’d ask them about it.

Exactly. But not by abandoning the old ones.

I have come across extremely dominant CMs who, at a very early stage, demanded me to work on their project before anything else. Or CMs who let me solve their mistakes, yet blamed me for the delay that had caused. In fact, I’ve come across a lot of unreasonable people here.


#213

I’m aware of it, many others are not and therefore use them.

Well, if I somewhat accepted 10 projects, then figure out I can only provide 3 episodes per week entirely I can calculate that everyone has to wait 3 weeks per episode. Depending on my position, I can ask for help (OL Mod, GE, TE at least) or have to reconsider by checking whether I’m able to fulfill the requests or rather ask someone else to do the project instead. I do understand that this is the last resort, but there are usually positive reactions if a solution is found and communicated (even if it’s the OL translation before FE that is usually avoided, but there might be other solutions). In most cases, at least.
I’m well-aware that coaxing may rather lead to success, but at some point, facing it honestly and finding a mediator if it’s a lost cause should be considered.


#214

So, we have a lot going on in the post. I’ll talk just the things that stood out for me and I’ll try to be brief and direct.

Personally, if I get a request from a mod who has the experience, all the projects are on track and translated, no delay on the translation, I see he/she actually did work on the channel (has subs done on it) and I feel the project will be in good hands, I’ll give the project with a happy smile and faster than a bullet.

In my opinion, the limit should be what the mod/editor can handle. We are all volunteers. Putting a limit can restrain people who could be helping.
I know mods and editors who have a lot more than 5 projects and handle that very well. All projects are up and running smoothly.
And I know some cases where it’s been over 2 months and the episode is still waiting to be released to the other languages because the CE just doesn’t edit the episode. Some dramas with episode waiting to be translated and the mod just MIA. I witnessed a episode where a mod asked the CM on TD about a delay and the CM who was also the CE was so very rude saying she has more important thing to do and everyone should simply wait.
If you have a number of projects in your hands and is taking over a month for you to release it/translate it, you are over your limit. You should let other people help and take over.
The drama/movie etc, is not ours, we just help Viki. We can’t act like we own it and keep it to ourselves.
You get a request for mod of a little known language and you see that the person has other projects and they are not finished and are very late. Why give more? The drama will just be sitting there on this person’s shelter as a souvenir.

If you ask to mod a drama you should be involved in your baby’s life. Editors are the helpers, but you need to have the last check to make sure is all the best you can give. Your baby can have a nanny but is your baby. You are responsible for it.
Speaking on the editor role, I like it but it should have more access. We don’t even have access to the bulk translation. When I’m added as editor I need to ask to be added as english mod so I can see the bulk translation and we need this. Some of the projects had segment issues and I could only see this while editing because the bulk translation shows all the segments subbed even when that is deleted from the episode.
So, please, give more access to the editor. We need it. If the editor had the access to the cover that would be great too. Or are you planning on creating a cover design role?


#215

Hi, I read good points here but I want to give my opinion as a popular Language (Portuguese to be more specific) Moderator who has “many” projects too.

First, what is considered hoarding? It’s just when the episodes are not completed or it’s when they are not edited as well? Because I have seen people who can complete in the same day that the episode was released for the other languages (especially because as a popular language there are a lot of volunteers to help) but take weeks, even months to edit the projects.

About the number of projects, I think it really depends on the person. I know people who can manage to work on more than 5 projects at the same time and did a really good job, but I also know people who can’t even do a good job in only one project.
And like some of you have already said there are projects that the problem is the English Team. As an example, I have a project which started in June and we are still on episode 14/26.

I think the most important work as moderator is edition. Even though, unfortunately, there are moderators who don’t have a good knowledge of English, in the worst cases, in their native language as well. But this is another problem.

I really like this option. I often co-moderate my projects, but at the same time, I edit for different moderators. When I co-moderate, I usually take turns on the first and final editions. However, when I moderate alone, I invite someone to do the first edition, and then I do the final edition. Because, in my opinion, it is good to have two pairs of eyes editing the project.


#216

Hoarders are people who have more than 40-50 (and some more than 100) unfinished library title projects. So 5 is well below that number.


#217

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT??? OMG!!!


#218

…Yes! :joy:


#219

Suddenly my 13 editing projects ongoing don’t look that much :joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy:


#220

I was thinking the same :joy:


#221

Based on my experience, viewers usually want to watch the episodes as soon as possible. They rarely care about a finished English or OL edit.

Otherwise Viki’s viewership survey result about auto-translated subtitles would have been different too. I think around 80% of the viewers said they’d watch a show with auto-translations instead of waiting until the subtitles are either done by subbers or edited.

Besides I agree with @spaufler_89 that it could happen that subtitles are worse after the editing is done.


#222

They’ll watch it and then scream and cry about it in the TCs, Comments section and the Reviews Section(and give the show 1 star ratings). I feel like most of them don’t even understand what auto translations are and can be. There are a lot of things I understood only after working on the subs. The Prince who Turns into a Frog’s frightening auto translations have scarred me for life lol

I myself would probably watch a drama with less-than-ideal subtitles, but only as a last resort. It’s always more comfortable, and you can understand the show better. However, I understand that it’s very hard to wait for translations and people will just take whatever’s available just so they can continue watching.

From this perspective, it probably would be better if episodes got released for OLs right after the first English translation or pre-sub edits, but— as some volunteers have already said— it could cause a lot of problems if English edits were done after the OL teams started working.


#223

I think too that a moderator should be able to edit, if necessary. Since we have such a huge lack of editors within the German community, you can’t rely on finding one. You should be prepared to jump in and edit yourself.

Concerning that you find it tiresome to watch a drama or movie before the subbers and watch it again while editing, are you serious? How will you moderate, fill in the google doc with terms, instructions and any guidance, if you, as the moderator, don’t know the drama? I think it’s a MUST for every moderator to watch the episodes first, update the google doc and then release the episode for the team. If you intend to leave this task to the editor, so that he/she has to update the google doc before subbing, what is left for you, the moderator? Finding a team, delegate the tasks to the subbers and the editor, releasing the episodes and what else? Isn’t this just collecting moderator jobs?

When I watch an episode, it takes me at least half an hour afterwards, because I note down the terms, the names of new characters, formal and informal speech between them and to take screenshots. After watching I start to update the google doc, take a look on new song lyrics and can finally release the episode. Yes, this is tiresome, but it’s an important task and the responsibility of the moderator.


#224

It was all about viewing twice, which one doesn’t have to do if they split into the tasks.


#225

Editing with just an half eye on the English subtitles, because you apprehend the plot and find contentwise mistakes? Okay, if this is your way of working… I would fear to miss mistakes and important nuances.


#226

I second that! You may not meet the requirements for a moderator and what’s more important, in my opinion, how will you be able to judge whether your subbers are doing a good job? How will you know, if the quality of their subtitles is good enough or maybe just mediocre or bad? Do you want to delegate this to the editor, too?


#227

This option with different signals is interesting and I think, this could apply for Korean dramas. If you take Chinese dramas with up to 6 or 8 episodes per week, moderators should inform the Viki Staff about the number of subtitlers and how many episodes they could translate per week. If you have a fast release of the episodes two weeks might be a bit tight, so you should be able to adapt the speed to your team.


#228

Sorry for not replyingI am with covid at the hospital. Just in case, it has been great to have met all of you. I love you.


#229

Dear Irene, I wish you the all the best! Don’t jinx it! In German we say “Toi toi toi” which means “Good luck, it will come out well” and knock three times on wood (or your head :wink: )

Get well soon! :heart: