Retrieving my older subtitles

Contributing Subtitling
22

That’s true too! I guess I wanted my own contributions because I wanted to have a quick way to look at my own mistakes so that I could make a summary, spot any recurring mistakes, etc.

Of course, like you mentioned, it’d be most beneficial if I could look through everyone’s work and learn from everyone’s mistakes. I am currently stuck at home now, so I have more time on my hands, so I can afford to do so. However, I won’t be stuck at home forever, and when quarantine is lifted, I don’t think I would have the luxury to do so.

23

There’s another way, IF you can enter before the editor locks the episode.
From Subtitle Editor, start a search with CTRL+F, and input the editor’s username. Then you’ll get all the subs she changed. Yes, there will also be corrections to other people’s subs, but at least you won’t have to go through all of the unedited/unchanged subs
If you can convince the editor to leave the episode open for a while, this is the quickest method.

2 Likes
24

@irmar

Copyrights

25

what do you mean wtih copyrights?
do you mean the subtitels or the episode itself?
because as far as i know there isn’t really copyrights on the subtitels, because we make them ourself.
or do you mean a copyright on the subs of someone else? because i don’t know if there is copyrights on those.
could you maybe explain what you meant with copyrights?

26

Try to find an editor who will explain you or try to ask if they can send you a quick feedback of your main mistakes after they edit your part.
When you receive it, review your subtitles.

It is more effective when the editor will tell you exactly why and where it is wrong or could be improved.
Could be instances where you don’t understand the correction or needs tips to learn how to remember. The editor can help you in that and give you more targeted links where it would be complete and easy to understand.

+having someone to explain you and talk to you makes you memorize it and be more attentive for next times.

Normally, the people with whom we experimented it in French (the nssa academy+outside) and who followed the feedback or the links provided, they progress really fast on 1 drama or 1 course. Could change + 50 % of a part at the beginning.
At the end of the drama, a lot less, a very few mistakes.

What can help you is looking at how good subbers are subtitling. Look at their parts in the subtitle editor. Good ones are the ones who have a very few corrections from the editor.
If your editor is competent, if he gets to subtitle a part, try to look at how he subtitled the part.

If you’re a Chinese-English subber, I would suggest for you to look at Skybluebluie_281’s subtitles (I hope the numbers in her username are correct). She mostly has worked on historical dramas. There are a few others too who are superb, but I don’t know if they are active right now and I don’t remember their full username.

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27

Not about subs, about ideas.
Irmar will understand.

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28

Thank you for your suggestion! I’ll consider doing that. I really appreciate your replies; they’ve helped me a lot!

I’m always afraid of being a bother, so I had never thought of dropping the editors a message. However, after reading both yours and @irmar’s replies, I do think that it’s the best way to go and will consider doing that soon.

You’ve got her username correct! She’s actually the editor for an “old” drama that I had just joined and I’ve been watching the episodes that had already been edited by her to aid me in my translations of the later episodes. I’ll take a look at her profile and try watching the dramas that she had worked as a subber too.

Thank you so much for your suggestions! I’m grateful for them - they’re very helpful.

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29

It was by chance, she’s someone we would recommend to anyone with closed eyes. There are a few other names too.

You can ask her the list of the current projects where she is subtitling and editing, you’ll see later.

You might not be able to see her version of the subtitles and see an edited version on dramas she was subbing.

If she doesn’t have time, review your edited subtitles first:

1/ CTRL+F her username/editor’s username and your username to see the proportion she/they need(s) to correct for your part. Evaluate yourself first like that.

2/ then review the part like you’d do + at the same time count the types of mistakes she or the team of editors corrected.

Ex: sentence structure, meaning, English conjugation…

Make your own list of types of mistakes you mostly do and look the point on the internet or books.

For ex:
I remember seeing subtitlers write “Although…, but…” a Chinese sentence structure we don’t have in English or French.

Just note the point “although… but” and the link of the lesson.

If you want to progress, you have to do many researches. At one point, you will make your own guide in a document with the grammar, conjugation point + the link, because there are too many to remember and it is easy to forget.

3/ Ask her with a precise question (timing +sentence) where you don’t understand or where you see you keep doing them and needs enlightment. Limit this list. That’d be faster for her.

If it’s about meaning, it would be difficult to explain for any editor, it’s black or white.
Normally, specific terms or complicated ones are in Team notes.

There are also forums on the internet where you can just ask.

I would also suggest to look at edited parts of other subtitlers in this old drama. If there aren’t many corrections, the subtitler is also an editor somewhere else, you can just look at all the parts that subtitler will do in the future or did.

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30

Thank you so much for this list! It is extremely helpful! The link is also an interesting read. I have never realised that this sentence structure is specific to Chinese despite studying both English and Chinese for almost all my life.

I will start doing the points you’ve mentioned once the editors are done with an episode that I have saved my original, unedited subtitles of. I currently have the edited subtitles of the first few episodes, but without my original subtitles, I don’t really know where my mistakes are. All I can do now is to note down phrases that I thought were translated well.

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31

It is okay if you don’t have the beginning. You can always continue to subtitle and review your future edited subs.

If there is no more ep, take another drama to subtitle where there is Sky or try to find another editor who can give you a quick feedback or who can answer your questions. It’s better not to take a lot of dramas at the same time when you try to learn, would be harder to follow everything and you will do more mistakes.

The feedback is needed at the beginning.
Depending on your fluency in both languages:

  • very good subtitler: 1-5 main points to review. They only need to review 1 or 2 parts. Maybe more exercices on 1 or 2 points to consolidate.
    These people are normally editors or mods or become ones and are easy to edit.

  • from 5-10 points to review. It depends from people and the points. More than 3 parts, maybe between 5-10 parts to review and links.

  • more than 10 points. About the same and more and links.

If it’s about meaning, it is repetitive and the sense is not there, it is more about deepening your understanding of the language. What can help you is: take a course outside, read books, watch dramas, talk and note it down for things you learn.

You don’t need to go on part 1 of ep 1.
Try to review one edited recent part first.
Next time when you subtitle, try to be attentive. Always take 5-10 min to read immediately again your part when you are done subbing. Always. You’ll always see something.
After edition, go see again.

Repeat it again a few times.
Each time, do your percentage, count and categorize your mistake.

It should help you see your progress and where you have difficulties.
If you don’t progress, review again the point, ask around.

Doing it alone has its limits. You need interactions with others who are competent enough not to teach you something wrong and different dramas to meet different situations, styles and sentences.

Good luck!

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32

@jeslynl

The method or process Irmar is describing is based on a creation of my mind that I implemented on a drama where we worked together for editing matters where I was watching a drama I was managing and reviewing subs after English edition.
We had to deal between different versions of the subs and I agreed to share how it works with Irmar, one of the editors of this drama, by PM. The steps are the same.
Here, it is different versions of subs between subbing and editions.

I’d like that people don’t turn this concept their own without my consent or if they share it, use it, add modifications and improve it, they don’t forget to separate clearly the author from the concept and the author of the improvement.

Even more when it is public and I am still on Viki.

As for Irmar, I apologize for the inconvenience. I respect you, but don’t forget to respect me, just for that case.

If in the future, I use something you used or helped me with, I will def put your name while thanking you as I did on this forum for the google quizz idea for the French academy and for many other things.

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33

Oh, I thought you were joking when you wrote about copyright before!
I didn’t consider this trick about pasting special/values only as your own invention (and clearly it is not -it’s been in MS Excel for ages). I thought you just passed on a tip on how to use this function of Google sheets that I was not aware of.
Yet, I usually always mention you when I tell people of this - even on non-public places. Not because I thought of copyright, but out of gratitude and friendship. This may be the only time I didn’t.
So you need to be mentioned each and every time. This seems to me a bit too much, though. It’s not as if I copied your whole project template or anything, I always make mine from scratch, and my Google sheets do look different from yours - more simple, less sophisticated. First of all because, unlike you, I’m just a basic user of Google sheets and most importantly because I don’t need more than that, the way I make them is enough for my purpose.
Please tell me exactly how you want to be mentioned when I tell people about the Paste Special/Values only function, and I will comply. I don’t want to lose a good relationship over such stupidity - although the relationship in this moment is already less good than it was, at least in my heart.

34

It seems to me that the Terms of Use https://www.viki.com/legal/terms_of_use for “subtitle submissions” at viki is broadly stated as it specifically covers " text, subtitles, dubs or other communications or graphics submitted by you" so that anything a user posts on the site is specifically owned by the creator but at the same time includes an explicit permission to use by viki (10.3 A) AND any other viki user. Read starting at 10.3B
“However, by submitting the Subtitle Submissions to Us, you hereby grant: to all Users a limited non-commercial license to modify and share the Subtitle Submissions with all Users in accordance with the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 License (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/4.0/’) (” CC BY-NC-SA "). (Bolding by me)
What I am saying is whenever anyone shares anything on the site is a “subtitle submission” and at the time of upload gives both viki and all other users the right to use the submission.

1 Like
35

Yes, this means that we are allowed to save our own subtitles to keep. Of course, non-commercial means that we can’t give them to another website or things like that, but I think that most of us just save them as a memento of the work done, as a resource and learning tool, and it’s absolutely okay to do so.

The way I understand it - I may be wrong, you are the lawyer! - is that it pertains on everything actually uploaded on the website. Therefore, If I post here a link of a video on youtube, it doesn’t mean that Viki gets the rights to that video. Same if I post a link to a document on my Google drive or to a picture on my Facebook page. Right?

(If you were also referring to piranna’s tip on how to use Google sheets, that was done in a private message but yeah, the copyright of that probably lies with Google company)

36

…

  • Would ppl have known how to do it?

  • would ppl have found it?

  • would ppl enter the bulk translation?

  • would ppl know how to use the bulk translation that way?

  • would ppl use google sheets for that?

  • would ppl be able to exploit it?

  • would ppl use it for different versions?

  • would ppl use Afar as an ex?

  • would you need to explain the steps here?

  • would Helena mention you or the author of this topic mention you and say the words “your method”? Why did they mention you like the author?

  • why does it feel like I read a transcription of my messages to you or a guide of something I spent time on and you added some tweaks on the foundation?

Something not personal and easy:

  • no need for questions or explanations

  • commonly used and most people know about it

I think the reactions don’t fill these criteria, letting us and them conclude: you are the author. Is it true?

For inventions using electricity, there are just using the same technology: electricity. All inventors after Thomas Edison just copied him because it was using electricity?

Because it is easy to do, no copyrights?

The person who draws a line or a dot, they didn’t invent the concept, anyone can do it. Is there no copyright?

The person who takes the time to do her personal guide from writing, copying pasting links or vocabulary, telling how to subtitle, English rules that are not invented by them or sb who does a quiz from a combination of existing quizzes: I can just use someone’s else work and tell it’s my own when I talk about it because it is an easy material? Would it be all right if I told or let it think it was mine?

Is it more fine because someone asked how it worked, used it, wrote a transcription of these specific steps from my messages, published it though it is seen as a guide or tool used specifically on Viki for specific needs?

There is no need for credits when it is easy to translate or to edit?

I should have written a guide and publish it so the term “author” needs to be recognized and people don’t feel the need to talk about it and publish it as if they’re the author?

For me, it is common sense. Why would I need to say “in Viki guidelines, it is written…”, “according to law…”

I don’t need you mention me every time you would use it, but don’t make it appear publicly like you’re the author of something where:

  • I had a problem, I haven’t got anyone to explain me

  • I used my brain to look for it, tested it, before finding it, I failed, tried other methods, tried some formulas

  • I explained

Have you got to think about it?

It is easy once you know the solution. Sure the one who takes it can overlook it and thinks “This is easy, this is just copying pasting.”

I know you wanted to help, but I think there is something you omit, my mind worked to find that, use it like that, explain you clearly.

I was surprised to see that you don’t see you are considered the author of something I spent some time on and you seem to assume I didn’t put efforts in it because the solution was easy when it came out, so it is like there is no need for an author and the solution fell from the sky.

But Irmar, I know better the time and efforts I put on it. It is like omitting all the work and time I spent by not recognizing there is an author.

Even for your quizz, you took some of your time.

Even to write your post, you took some time to explain the steps.

37

Hi piranna. I am so sorry if I insulted you or made you feel as if I excluded you from the spreadsheet idea. I’m sure you spent a lot of time trying to come up with this, and I feel bad for contributing to your part in the idea going unnoticed and causing this. I’ve edited my post, and I made sure to include you as the main creditor!

38

I never said I was the author of the method.
I had already thought of copying the subs from Bulk Editor and keeping them. And I do know how to select, copy and paste something. I just didn’t think of doing this in Google sheets and I didn’t know about the Paste Special to avoid the ugly double lines (this is indeed brilliant).
And I don’t know how “it feels” to you, but I certainly didn’t copy paste your past message! It would have taken me much more to find it (in the new horrid inbox), IF it’s still there, than to write it from scratch. And of course the screenshots are mine.

Am I a person who doesn’t give credit? If you see my guidelines for English subbers, you will see a mention of cgwm808. If you see my Medical dictionary you will see thanks to Mahoula on the very first page.
I thought that mentioning you once on my profile page, together with the other people I owe gratitude, was enough. Perhaps you’ve never seen this, which has been there for years, unchanged (please don’t insult me by thinking that I’ve added it right now).
credits

I was concentrated in helping Helena, and I didn’t think of stressing out the point of who was the first one who told me about using Google sheets and about the Paste Special trick. Even now I sincerely don’t think it’s such a crime. If I teach someone to make apple pie, should I mention my mother, my grandmother and who knows who else? Because this recipe surely started from somewhere, I wasn’t born knowing how to make apple pie. We are born knowing nothing.
All the things I know I have learned from other people. When I teach my students about some details of Korean, of course they come from my dear teacher. And when I teach dance, some steps were taught to me by X, some others by Z, and some others are a combination of the two, plus a twist by me, inspired by some stranger on youtube. That’s the way knowledge works.
It’s a different thing when a whole resource, for instance a whole choreography, or an entire spreadsheet, is copied almost exactly, with all its different tabs, formatting, and all the wording of the different parts, yet no credit is given, ever, to the person who originally made it. Not only that, but when people in front of the creator praise it and say to the copier “How wonderful is your spreadsheet”, and the creator is present, still the copier says “thank you” without mentioning the creator.
(Now this spreadsheet has become the standard for a very large group of people, and if they come to work with me they might think that I was the one to copy it and adapt it - because since then I have made changes, it evolves all the time.

This said, if this is your wish, I will make sure to mention your name as the copyright holder of this method every time I explain it. Or maybe you don’t even want it to be shared? Do you want us to ask Viki to delete the posts?

39

I understand it like that:

  • You consider it is fine to give credits to cgwm and mahoula, but you didn’t consider it was work from my part and so you didn’t put credits.
    You still consider it is not work and you don’t see something is wrong from reading your message, but you agree to compromise.

  • You can overlook when people use your materials and tell they are the ones who made it, but I am not you and I can’t be. I don’t overlook it. When it is not correct or right, I will tell you.

  • I don’t see a relationship like that, that a person takes less or more place when she says the contrary, disagrees or tells you something is not correct when she is concerned.
    How can it be a solid and lasting relationship?
    I have not seen our relationship like that.

Let’s forget it. As far as I am concerned, I just want to enjoy my holidays and def not on Viki!

40

@soyamilkbeancurdpudd With an open and keen mindset like yours, you will improve. It’s just a matter of time and effort. Learning (and seeking to improve) what you love (translation and languages) while doing what you love (watching dramas), that’s a winning combo in itself! As for Chinese captions, some dramas come with provider’s script where you can copy-paste-compare with your translation vs. edited translation. In this instance, you will need to create three columns side by side in a google sheet (or any other software).

Where to look for Chinese captions?

  1. If it’s provider’s script, look within Subtitle Tool under More and within the tab of Reference Substitles.
  2. Alternatively, if there are contributors working on Chinese captions (for C-dramas), you can wait for them to complete each episode, then download the Chinese subtitles, then copy-paste-compare.

@piranna Just to clarify, I didn’t know of your method (which is more in-depth, I guess). While I don’t know your exact method, I applaud your ingenuity. I do know that you are well-versed with g-sheets. KUDOS!) and I didn’t communicate with @irmar or anyone about the method you’ve authored. The simple and least time-consuming (IMO) g-sheet method I use for almost every project I work on here is just a small extension of my work IRL. It’s also an easy but necessary way to stay consistent with every term used throughout a long drama series. No doubt there’s the Team Notes for every team, my g-sheet is an extension that allows me to notate and alert myself on areas to pay extra attention to or to follow up on certain tasks. When asked by editors or subbers within a certain team on what was this term or that phrase, I could just search and relay it without conjecture. Incidentally, I’ve shared this method with some newbies (that I’ve recruited, and when I was more active). Whether they continue to use it, I don’t know but hoped it was helpful to them.

Sometimes, depending on circumstance, I simply use notepad or g-doc, though it has its limitation.

Have a good one! Be well! :wine_glass::cherries:

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41

So you didn’t see the credit I gave you on my profile page?
I gave credits to those two people because they provided me with full spreadsheets which I copied in their entirety and then added to them. I specifically explained that a full spreadsheet, or a full choreography, or a full crochet/knitting pattern, in my view, is different than a single dance step or crochet/knitting stitch, because you cannot copyright a stitch but the combination of stitches into a pattern.
Sometimes even a sequence of steps cannot be considered grounds for copyright.
There was an Indian yoga teacher, Bikram Choudhury, who became famous in the US and wanted to copyright a series of yoga postures. Of course the whole yoga world was appalled, because yoga postures have been there for thousands of years. He claimed that the choice and sequence of postures was of his own creation. Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia on what happened then:

From 2009, Choudhury claimed that the series of 26 postures of his yoga practice, Bikram Yoga, was under copyright) and could not be taught or presented by anyone whom he had not authorized. Choudhury began making copyright claims on Bikram Yoga in 2012. In 2011 Choudhury started a lawsuit against Yoga to the People, a competing yoga studio founded by a former student and with a location near one of the Bikram Yoga studios in New York City). As a result of that lawsuit, the United States Copyright Office issued a clarification that yoga postures (asanas) could not be copyrighted, and that Yoga to the People and others could continue to teach the series.

Anyway, we could discuss this until next year, but I don’t think it’s useful at this point.

I’m a practical person, so I prefer to concentrate on the “what to do” part from now on.

Saying that henceforward I’ll always mention you is not a “compromise”. I’m doing it out of concern since you seem to be so sensitive about it. Doing it easy for me, doesn’t cost me anything, whereas if I don’t do it it seems you become miserable and upset and write novels. If I can prevent someone from being miserable and upset, why not do it?

I am specifically asking you what it is that you want, so please be precise:

  • Is mentioning you enough?, or
  • Do you want me to never explain this method to anyone in the future?
  • What about those people I already told in the past, or who have read this thread? Should we also tell them to never tell anyone else? Or, if they do, that they have to mention you, the copyright holder?
  • Do you want me to delete all my posts from this thread?
  • Do you want us to ask the staff to delete the whole thread?