Viki

The golden way of editing ... Or is there one?


#64

Thank you for your kind words, imar. :blush: Glad to help you and others who are working so hard to enable non-Korean speaking viewers enjoy the Korean dramas.


#65

@ajumma2; @irmar
Amen.


#66

@angelight313_168
On what basis are you making factual assertions?

  1. “we are not short of Korean or Chinese subbers” Wrong. I sub and edit on Korean drama and I seg on Chinese drama. As an editor I am constantly recruiting Korean to English subbers so I can say from this weekly experience that there are not enough fluent subbers volunteering. This has been true from 8 years ago when I first started at viki and is even more true today because the number of current “on-air” K dramas has increased tremendously in the past two years.
    On the current C-dramas, I try to segment a little every week and I know that popularity of C drama is expanding And week by week I see we are getting “behinder and behinder” in subbing the Chinese drama.
  2. If there is a shortage of competent volunteers, how can we get to your next point “let’s make more teams find more volunteers to work in those projects”? We can fill these new teams with the people who volunteer to sub with only enough knowledge to sub single phrases such as “yes”, “no”, “hello”, “goodbye”, “oppa” (and some even sub that when the character is saying the word for “father”) but how far in subtitle completion rate will that get us?
  3. " they leave dramas halfway to start another one that was on air drama" – I don’t do that and most of the segmenters and Korean to English subtitlers I work with don’t do that. But I won’t badger anyone to fulfill their volunteer “commitment” – and fortunately, there are people like ahjumma2 (aka Godsend) and about six or so other subtitlers who did over 1000 lines each on Saimdang, which most of us personally did not like and we finished the project. Of the seven “late licensed dramas” suddenly appearing for me in 2016, only 1 1/2 hour of episodes is left to be completed – this is out of way over 100 hours of episodes which were added on to my commitment to “on-air” dramas. (And I try to subtitle regularly on this series to which is a “black mark” on my record.)
    Where were we going to find more subtitlers? On at least six days of the week, there are three “terrestial” broadcasters and two or three cable stations broadcasting two or three dramas per day. (Two evening dramas and one daily). Do the math - 5 stations x 3 episodes = 15 potential new episodes per day. Fortunately, viki doesn’t get the license for all current dramas! You can do similar estimation for Chinese content except that the potential number of episodes per day is exponentially greater.
  4. You say "we need to look for more segmenters Korean Chinese translators willing to work IN ALL DRAMAS not the genre they like to work in. " “Volunteer” as defined by the Merriam-Webster dictionary “one who renders a service or takes part in a transaction while having no legal concern or interest.” We cannot tie anyone to a computer keyboard! If a drama is not as interesting as it appeared prior to broadcast, if real life intervenes to make time less available for a volunteer activity, who are we to fault/ blame any volunteer for not showing up?
    If a subtitler or segmenter doesn’t want to work on a drama which doesn’t interest them, why should they?
    “On that same note I may add the volunteer work needs to be treated as a paying job with the same respect and obligations.” There is NO “obligation” to show up for work for a volunteer.
  5. “You rarely do work here and if you do is here and there you are not a regular in any team for a while now that means someone that can replace is needed here.” If I can get just ONE “100% Korean to English subtitler” to show up for “polishing” of the subtitles on any drama I am on, I am happy, and I will take that time on their terms anytime – from the day of upload, to several weeks later. There are NO replacements for such gems in the crown of competent subtitlers. Fluency in both Korean and English is a scarce resource.
    I see on your profile you really liked Madame Butterfly. This is a project that took a long time to complete. Until Episode 20 or so the principal subber was a very bright 15 year old ethnic Korean studying in the US who suddenly stopped completely because she was attending high school and a community college full time! Another major subber was a medical school student whose girlfriend is Korean! We certainly could not demand of the bright high schooler that she come back to viki or that the medical student to put in more time.! At least the high schooler told me before she left why she was leaving. We would never have had coherent subtitles if it were not for the polish and the “fill in the blank” work done by ajumma2 on each episode. There were 51 episodes in all.
  6. “Korean dramas have a sharp decline here in segmenting” This is simply NOT true. I was a mentor and graduate panel reviewer in Seg 101. I have been segmenting for seven years. I am a sensei in Ninja Academy and a graduate panel reviewer. Segmenting in K drama has never been better than it is now. I rarely have to send any suggestions for improvement to any of the segmenters on the shows I work on. And when I do send some suggestions, I see immediate results in the next video they segment on the series I am working on.
    8_ “Don’t stay with 7 projects and leave ppl waiting years for you to finish the darn thing whenever you can.” Were you saying this to me or to Mahoula? We certainly have not left anyone waiting for years. We both stick to projects until they are done and will continue to do so because that’s the way we are, not because you said so.

#67

@angelight313_168 What do you think the outcome of forcing volunteers to work on a drama they don’t want would be, if not for volunteers fleeing Viki?


#68

It’s not only that they would flee, it will become a careless result.
F.e. horror, I can’t deal with that genre at all. Extreme use of violence, and so on … Makjang in overdose …
You would not even see my shadow.
Per her definition I shouldn’t be a contributor either. It is possible I can translate for a week, it is possible I can’t write one subtitle in months. But still I am here.
I did translation for a complete drama on my own, I did moderate a team, not only in name, I kept them company subbing as well. Helping, when they could only get through 80 percent. I would do the rest or I would give them options. I helped editing a drama of another lone subber. I go to main pages of drama to leave encouraging comments for the team, that does not bring me any browny points to my viki account.
Most of those subber gave other things in their lifes priority by now. So what?
Volunteering is a free option and how to take care of it in everyones own responsibility.
I will leave it at that, I think or we need to open a new topic thread …


#70

I never said working on the one’s you don’t want to work in but opening options and see if there others you can lend a hand in too that it might not be what you like but can tolerate working in so it doesn’t get stuck.


#71

I can think of at least two people here who go on and on about their proficiency and importance and excellent language/ editing/ managing skills, yet their posts usually either don’t make sense because they lack coherence and just go around in circles between attacking and backtracking, or use 500 words when they could just use 50, just because they like the sound of their own voice.

I’m just done with this attitude. Over and out.


#73

AMEN to that. I don’t do editing work here (If I did only in Spanish Telenovelas) so I never claim proficiency in any given language.The only language I can claim proficiency is in my native language, SPANISH.

Ironically, people claiming to be from France criticize my Spanish subtitles and the English one’s too although I hardly understand what they wrote because it was obviously done with the use of a translator.

Don’t get wrong my comment about the use of certain words here is not the fact they used the wrong word but they never wanted to correct the problem and chose to insult me or write long PM about that like if I committed a crime when I was just trying to feel be part of the team.


#74

Ahem, ahem …
May I say something since I started this thread.
Originally I wanted to know about the procedure, the polite ways between subber, moderator and editor.
Maybe extended to some useful advice in detail, about what to correct.

What I didn’t want is to discuss problems that involve viki staff, viki’s business practices or viki’s business model.
I didn’t read all, what you were writing just now, I apologize for that matter, but …
I am sorry, if you want to talk about these things, I beg you open your own topic. With the matters that bug you, but please do not derange my post.

I am at viki since 2010, since then I encountered many things at this platform. I had enough in those years about the back and for bickering among volunteers all you can do, by doing it this way is to endanger the whole viki project as it is. It is unique in its way, but will get on the red list. I will say it once again, the problem is with viki, but this thread is not opened for this precise topic. If you have a problem with viki, you should address it. If you need to gather people for it - do it, but do open a thread for exactly that topic.


#75

In short people are upset at you because what you pointed out was the opposite of what we experienced here.

I agree with every single one of cgwm808’s points.

We do not have enough proficient (95+% Korean-English subtitlers) on viki. They number around 20? How many are active? How many can even attempt historicals?

I had to be the main translation editor on two on-air shows (not ideal because I can only do one and that very slowly. I just finished DBS and now am fully focused on Sister is Alive) because we ran out of editors. The ones who do not have any load at all are on break. That’s why your proposal to have more of this or less of that doesn’t make sense. There is no way to bring editors.

The translation editors of every language literally do not have any or very few benefits by being on viki. We do not need any subtitles. I have no problem watching non-subtitled historical, legal, or medical drama with only 95% understanding because the technical terms are self-defined (much like Irmar says it is the same for Greek).We still feel bad by reading shitty comments. They are demotivators and put-downers.

Every time I read one of your essays, it seems to me you are building an argument for why none of us should be here at all.


#76

So considering other languages how is it best to address the grade level of a student?

중2 is actually synonymous with teenager so I have a lot of problems with this word. It stands for 2nd year of middle school (US equivalent of 8th grade, but most are 14 years old in western years not 13 like USA).

So for teenage angst they have this word 중2병 which is 2nd year middle school disease.

I always wondered how to best navigate these situations.


#77

I don’t have a problem with viki at all in fact because I love this site so much I just hope they see the need to address some things here.

My apologies for using your THREAD I was responding to some people that wrote to me just like you did now…:frowning:

To everyone: sorry but I’m not responding anyone here anymore. This is lutra’s thread and I shouldn’t impose on him/her? Thank you.


#78

I can merely answer for Germany, it would be around 7.-8. class (Klasse) of any type of school.

I would not have a problem with the word teenager or teen, even if the range goes from 10-19 in number, but as you know in some states with 18 you are an adult. In Germany you are, in the US and in South Korea you are not.

Oops, there we go something like middle school disease is unheared of in Germany. Exams at the end of the year for all the subject matter of the year is not used, only for the Abitur, which depends on if you use the G8 or G9 model, so after 12 or 13 years of school.
I guess we would address it as puberty problems, symptom of adolescense/puberty, adolescent phase …

I don’t know if that helps you …


#79

I sent you a PM because of a matter, I do not want to have in this threat.

But no one needs to be alert it’s not dangerous :wink: Just off topic.

P.S. I know you mean that you don’t have a problem with viki, you mean the whole project, but you really have a problem with the politics at viki and how they handle things.


#81

You do not need to apologize, or defend anybody.

I underrstand what she ment, I just said it is unrelated to the topic I started and I don’t want this topic to go astray. I guess we came to a consent about that.
To discuss the other matter it would need a lot of effort to find a consent, but since we can discuss on that matter all day long, we as volunteers are at the shorter end at the moment, viki is the one holding the key for changes and improvements.

But I wish you all the best in bringing the Spanish subbers forward. :wink:


#82

Most german subbers use for this matter “elementary school” - “Grundschule”, “middle school” - “Unterstufe”, “8th Grader” “Mittelstufe oder Mittelstufenschüler” und für die älteren Schüler der “High School” die “Oberstufe”. For this reason, the moderator should have some regulations, how to translate those terms. :wink:


#83

The only problem is those terms, about “Unterstufe, Oberstufe, etc.” are rarely in use.
And I often see those words untranslated using “Highschool, …”, study turns into “studieren” instead of “lernen”.


#84

That depends on the moderator, if he/she has regulations for those terms. And on the editor :slight_smile:


#85

As a german moderator, I would be grateful, if this explaination would be part of the team notes. We don’t have a german word for this disease, we would translate it as a kind of puberty crisis or fears of failure from teenagers.


#86

the thing is unless there is a particularly need to explain a word, I rarely see the explanations like that. I usually just translate as puberty or teenager.