Yes, we indeed have a problem…
The message was supposed to be sent to the Arabic moderator (@tweet998), but it says it was sent to the CM.
@cgwm808, if you as the CM of Psychopath Diary received my PM, please disregard it.
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@bozoli I’m not sure about the CM but the language moderator got it and replied.
So it’s save to say CM’s can ignore messages from the finder if that language has a mod. According to Viki’s QC newsletter CM’s should only get those messages if there in no moderator now.
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Good! This means that one problem is solved. The next step is to program the Finder to recognize only the unfinished epizodes, not clips.
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Ok, I have a tiny comment to our viki staff members if they read this for feedback. I noticed that in the message bozoli sent me, the language name is written in Arabic, of course I can read it, but if the CM is the one who receives the message, they would be unable to recognize what language that is.
I mean if I was CM, I don’t think I should be expected to read Chinese, Turkish or Russian, for example, how would I know what language that is without either having to ask the sender or asking our dear Mr. Google to help out.
So that’s my note. Please fix that.
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I was recently flooded with messages saying that they want to translate “episode 08 of My Mister”.
It was a bit funny, why only episode 08? Then, seeing how they all said the very same thing, I understood that it was an automated message from the Project finder.
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SUGGESTION
I think that there should also be a filter of access.
Free - Vikipass/QC - Vikipass plus.
Because all the people who wrote to me were complete newcomers with zero subtitles and without a vikipass, so of course they cannot access this particular on-air drama.
I had to write to them, again and again, that before asking they should check the drama’s page to assess whether it’s available to them. Even if they have a vikipass, it might not be available for their region. But if the project finder at least has this filter, it will filter out most cases of inappropriate applicants and avoid disappointment for them and annoyance for us.
2. SUGGESTION: The name of the language should be in English.
Of course I also agree with what tweet998 said about the name of the language being in English.
Yes, the applicant could change that, but a newcomer will probably not think of doing this.
3. SUGGESTION: The drop-down list of countries of origin
When you choose the country the drama comes from, why this interminable drop-down with all the countries in the world, when nowadays only dramas from China, Taiwan, Korea, Japan and maybe a couple of other countries are available on Viki? Even all the US classic films and cartoons can’t be accessed anymore, and few Latin American offerings remain. So just a list of 6-7 countries would be enough. Are they really planning to bring shows from Angola, Arruba or the Bahamas on Viki? Many newcomers could waste lots of time thinking that there are shows from their country when in reality there are none.
Can’t they prune all this ginormous list?
4. BUG?
I went to Project Finder and I was surprised to find that My Mister is the ONLY Korean drama needing Ko-En subbers right now. Really??? What about all the other on-air and non on-air dramas? What about the ongoing reality shows that always need more subbers? For instance, I know for a fact that 100 Days My Prince (where I’m also working) has unsubbed episodes, and so do many others.
I just put Korean to English language and then Korea as a country, no other filter. And only one drama came up? No wonder I’ve been getting all those messages!
5. SUGGESTION: Make the drama thumbnail clickable
A big problem with Project Finder is that it doesn’t encourage you to go to the drama’s main page to find out information. First of all whether you can access it from your region, and also to read the synopsis and see whether the drama appeals to you. Whatever you can guess from the thumbnail and this is it.
For My Mister it only says:
My Mister Episode 008
Country: Korea
Translate from: 한국어 Subtitle → English Subtitle
Genre: Drama, Korean Drama, Idol Drama
Really? Idol drama? Just because there is IU acting in it? This will give a totally wrong impression to wannabe subbers! You may get a whole bunch of teenage volunteers who apply with the wrong impression but then will not like the drama’s dark ambiance and may stop contributing midway.
Why can’t one click on the thumbnail to go to the drama’s main page and find out more? Including whether it’s accessible for your region and for your vikipass status? That’s so easy to implement.
6. Nuisance that can’t be helped.
In case the person wants to translate into English, the message is sent to all the English moderators of this drama. And we all know that English Moderator, Chief Editor, General Editor and Translation Editor all have moderator rights to be able to lock and unlock episodes. In this case the message was sent to seven different people. But that can’t be helped, I suppose.
7. Comment for applicants
The form gives the option for the applicant to write his/her own stuff as well but all the applicants who sent me a message didn’t bother writing a couple of words of their own. For instance “I am a Korean living in the US, very fluent in both languages, retired, so I have plenty of time” or whatever. This is not a problem with Project Finder, of course, I’m just mentioning it for whoever wants to apply: it gives you a better chance if you add a personal touch instead of leaving just the automated message.
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What about editing the thread name to remove “the problem with trailers and clips” since we’ve been targeting many other problems with the project finder?
I don’t know… Maybe “The New Project Finder feedback”?
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By chance, as the Koreans say, do you have Korean captions in that show?? I think this is what we could be missing, if you do have them, then the finder is actually looking for them as the “From” language…
Update:
As expected…
Like, I am sorry, but does viki not know that their subbers work by listening??!!!
Now this is a serious problem. So the finder can’t actually find a show for Ko-Eng subbers or Chi-Eng subbers for shows that aren’t lucky enough to have a hard-working Korean or Chinese moderator that subs before the English.
This removes the whole purpose of the finder itself, if the finder can’t find then what?
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Yes, indeed we have a Korean Moderator doing captions as soon as segmenters segmented all parts of one episode on My Mister.
Plus, something I think is annoying as Channel Manager is that people are sending messages from project finder without even checking if the project is already subbed in their language, without mentioning the fact sometimes the same person send twice or more the same message.
It happened to me receiving 5 or 6 messages from the same person for 2-3 different dramas only just in a few minutes, whereas the language the person asked to sub was already completed since months.
I always try to answer every message I receive but having to answer the same thing everytime is so annoying.
Now, it’s Moderators who will receive the messages, but still, the problem is sometimes editors (even for other languages, not only English) are also moderators so it’s easier for them to edit, and they will receive all the messages from people wanting to join the team using project finder because of that.
And not to mention the fact that sometimes the language is not even written on the message or just written in their own language so you have to guess which language it is if you don’t know it or have to ask and hope for an answer which sometimes never come (when you’re Channel Manager).
I think the best would be just a button to redirect to the Moderators or Channel Manager profiles if there is no moderator for the language, so the subbers will have to write themselves their message. Because receiving the same message from project finder is really annoying, especially when you receive 5-10 messages a day because people don’t even bother to check if it’s subbed or not.
Plus this kind of message is not helpful since we can’t see the level of English or other language of the person sending it considering that it’s not a personal message.
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Well, this is what Project Finder is primarily supposed to do, isn’t it? You shouldn’t have to check if the show/episode is subbed in your language. If it’s in there, it should be unfinished. But the reason it may stand unfinished is, again, the clips and trailers which stand untranslated and the reason I started this discussion. They seem to be a real issue in effectiveness of the Project Finder.
Not to mention antagonising the established translating community, when in fact as a new volunteer you have no idea your actions are not very appreciated. You are following what Viki (Project Finder) says and think it’s all right to do it that way.
I very much agree. You can already half-appraise a new volunteer by the PM they send you in their target language - spelling, punctuation, level of interest etc.
I forgot to mention one important thing, which wasn’t mentioned before.
The Project Finder only finds dramas/projects which have already been started.
In some languages there a lot of shows where translating hasn’t even begun, like my own. There you would think all other shows not in the Project Finder are already finished! This is not okay.
If the problem is that those projects don’t have moderators yet, there should be another filter in the Project Finder:
- (Gold) QC - qualified to be a moderator
- or not - qualified only for the subtitler position.
Although, to be honest, if a show doesn’t have a moderator for the target language, then the message would go to the CM anyway. And we allow people to translate as solo subtitlers, without a moderator. CMs just pay extra attention to that particular volunteer. So, I think there isn’t any reason at all to exclude dramas which haven’t been started. And the volunteer level of the applicant is irrelevant.
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@bozoli
“You can already half-appraise a new volunteer by the PM they send you in their target language - spelling, punctuation, level of interest etc.”
You are very correct. I used to tell people who applied to me to sub on a drama into a language other than English, to write to their preferred language moderator carefully with the same message in two languages – In English and in the language they were translating to and to give a little background or their familiarity with both languages.
The form letter tells you nothing about the person except that they did not bother to look at the channel page. I really cannot think of a single instance in which I actually accepted a subber from reading the form letter.
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The Project Finder utility is flawed as we all have noted. I do like the drop down box approach though. But it requires serious revision.
The box should at least have a drop down box that lists important items and requires completion by applicant, such as:
*Viki experience
*training and certification
*languages spoken
*There should be an ALL choice under GENRE. I found that I had to enter 5 or 6 genres before I found a project in an other language.
*Specialized knowledge (medical, engineering, science, the arts). Teams often need translators and editors who can correct the often very bad “science” of the script writer. So if you want to work on a medical drama, let the CM know that you have a medical background as well as subtitling or editing skills.
*There is other information that could be in the application that is addressed in other comments on this Board.
- Almost all of the requests I have received are from complete newbies. Putting them on on-air drama teams makes it difficult for teams to meet schedules without working two or three times as hard to correct inexperienced work. It is also discouraging for the new person.
There should be a special drop down box for those with little or no experience and no training or certification. I think that the drama/film choices for newbies should be limited to material that is not on-air. As I did years ago, they can work on older material where they can take their time and be properly mentored. Suggesting a new person start with a variety or reality show is crazy mean. These are very difficult to subtitle and edit. In other words, some options should not be available for those with no Viki experience or training. That means that the list of available dramas/films in the Project Finder should not be limited to on-air. There is much older material that others want to have translated and edited, and some of that material is fabulous!
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Which brings me to another point. Why is editing not a skill choice? Segmenting, subtitling, editing, CM
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Confusing language selection boxes. Apart from the fact that except for translation of the original language into English, the only translation choice is from English to another language other than that of the country of origin.
Here is what I found. If a drama is Chinese in origin and you want to translate from the original into Spanish, the Project Finder erroneously produces a list of dramas. This, however, is not possible since Chinese is never translated directly into Spanish. If, for the same Chinese drama, I indicate that I want to translate from English to Spanish, I get a good-sized list of available dramas. How is a new person supposed to know the order in which dramas are translated into other languages? Programer… if the drama is Chinese then control the available choices in the translation boxes. If Chinese is in the translate from drop down box, then the only available translate to choice should be English.
For those of you who saw My Mister as the only choice for translators, it is because the GENRE selection was too limited. We all know that the genre descriptions are often far from accurate.
It’s a good idea, Viki. Please refine the process so that it works.
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Very discouraging. All this talk about caring for us, the video meetings, the note taking, the document sending, all this asking for our input last summer, and they come up with “this”?
There is an appropriate Greek saying which comes to mind: ὤδινεν ὄρος καὶ ἔτεκεν μῦν. A mountain went through childbirth pains and produced a mouse.
I’m wondering, why are we bothering to offer feedback again, since it seems that nobody is listening?
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Two weeks ago, I received messages from 2 subbers via the project finder that they wanted to join the team. I accepted both only to find out the following… the episodes both have come to sub were available only for viki pass… and both didn’t have a viki pass. They came with their hopes up to join the team and couldn’t sub and couldn’t watch…
I didn’t know this because I have a pass and thought it was all available for everyone.
The message the project finder sends has a specific episode number that the volunteer wants to help in. Can’t you at least detect whether they can actually see that or not?
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That’s why these days I always ask if they can see the episodes and if not that they cannot help out. Some people just want to join the team because they think that being part of the team makes them able to watch it.
Also with finder messages I now ask if they plan to sub the whole Kdrama or just an episode. Hardly get a reply back…
Hi I cannot access to Viki project for CM I cannot see what dramas are licensed.
I think is a bug. The app doesnt work neither.
I don’t know which channel you are talking about but if it doesn’t show in the app I suppose it isn’t licensed for you? Maybe you can ask the help center what’s going on?
She means the tab in the Project Finder, the second one, where you see which projects are licensed in Viki, so that you can apply to become their CM. She says this tab is not showing for her.
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