Translation Editor Role and Reward Released

[bradamantecrix]

@bozoli

An OL Moderator should be so well versed in both English and their target language, that they can easily take over the role of the Editor. And I would argue they SHOULD edit their own projects, because as a CM, I hold the Mods accountable for both the completion and quality of the translation.

Moderation should not go into the hands of people who are lousy editors in the first place.

Unfortunately, this is not always the case.

[lyla]

@bozoli

No, you have not, because there is no such role on Viki. And particularly because you contributed with only Portuguese and Spanish subs. You are still quite inexperienced.

Bozoli, you may think I’m quite inexperienced, but never trust your eyes just because you could kept your account through these years while others couldn’t. Be grateful for that.

I’ve been everything here in Viki except TE and CE.

Now, back to the main topic.

Do we really need an official role formally assigned by Viki (as Final Editor) to prove that an Editor edited subs about 4 times to make sure the final product was OK?

You know, strategies for good translated texts include reading, proof-reading and time. We edit, sleep on it, then go on and check again… as much times as needed. That’s why an OL Editor might edit as many times as the Final Editor role (which doesn’t exist formally). That would mean: editing for the 4th time. Why? Because due the times we check/edit the work we, OL, are the TE, GE and CE + the extra final Editor - when needed.

The Final Editor role, even though not formally adopted, is the ultimate proof, for me, that Viki does know very well what we do here and how we work.

[damiechan]

@lyla

• the extra final Editor - when needed.

This role isn’t here. Not sure where you’d get that this is a role.

[lyla]

Please, read it again. Thank you.

PS: If you read the whole paragraph you’ll understand what I meant.

[zyxw]

@lyla

You know, I’ve seen them and I’ve been one myself.

@lyla

Do we really need an official role formally assigned by Viki (as Final Editor) to prove that an Editor edited subs about 4 times to make sure the final product was OK?

@lyla

OL Editor

Huh…
The common agreement is: TE, GE and CE are English Team roles. Lately something weird happened and these terms were extended to the OL, but that doesn’t mean that it was accepted. When I say TE, GE and CE I mean English Team. There is no FE in the English Team.
When it comes to OL editors, they can be whatever they want, it just causes unnecessary confusion.
Do people from large communities really divide themselves into TE GE CE???

@lyla

Aren’t those subbers doing their very best responsibly?

My point is not about being good or bad, doing their best or not. It’s just that the editor and the subber are two different roles. Two different responsibilities, difficulties and time requirements. Just that.

@lyla

What you’ve stated is the role of the Mod.

Tbf in most of the medium or small communities being a mod means being also an editor. That’s what I’m used to.
However even if mod=/=editor, I believe that the “extensive research, surfing through the transcripts, checking other sites to be sure about the titles of the characters, sending feedback to the subbers, creating a spreadsheet, writing to the editors to verify the segments I’m not sure of” part of my message still applies to the editor role

@lyla

while others couldn’t.

Huh…

[lyla]

@zyxw

Do people from large communities really divide themselves into TE GE CE???

No, but obviously (even Viki stated it regarding the TE role for OL):

@vikicommunity

English to any language as long as translation editing is mainly being done by the Contributor.

an OL Editor does the tasks of all of these roles you mentioned, though implicitly, of course. I’ve explained it clearly on other post.

@zyxw

I’m not sure of” part of my message still applies to the editor role

It doesn’t, but that’s okay.

@zyxw

My point is not about being good or bad, doing their best or not. It’s just that the editor and the subber are two different roles. Two different responsibilities, difficulties and time requirements. Just that.

Well, everyone is entitled to think whatever they want.
I agree with this:

@bozoli

As much as the role of English team is important for all the subsequent languages, I’m not sure an English TE consistently spends more time on their task than the subber/editor/mod of another language.

[ Remembers the times when finding one plant name took 10-15 minutes. ]

and that’s why I insist the role of subber is as important as any other: requiring time, effort and responsibility… We are asked to translate with extremely care and bring high quality subs for viewers to ensure they do not read “lousy” material before Editors can start doing their magic.

I bet you didn’t know.

@zyxw

@lyla

while others couldn’t.

Huh…

Scoffing?

[gonghina]

Hello!
New TE role question (also here!)
We’ve been testing this new role of TE in a drama in these days. I often translate alone my projects. I always add myself as mod and translator. Sometimes as editor when I do it alone, otherwise I add my friend that helps me in the edit.
In these days, I added, removed me, counted the subs and bla bla.
Then, I decided to add myself as translator and TE and I noticed that I gained 2 points by creating the sub by scratch. I thought we should earn two points just by editing the subtitle but it’s not like that.
Did you notice this? Should we consider this as abuse? Thank you

[hanjingyi]

@gonghina

We’ve been testing this new role of TE in a drama in these days. I often translate alone my projects. I always add myself as mod and translator. Sometimes as editor when I do it alone, otherwise I add my friend that helps me in the edit.

Glad we tried! I guess they probably didn’t think of adding a filter that made sure those 2 points are only granted if you edit (i.e. if a sub from someone else is already present in the segment and the TE edits it), instead of subbing in an empty segment.

Since English TE usually only have one role in a channel, it shouldn’t be a problem for them. But for OL who work alone and are Moderator, Editor and subber together, the TE role overrides the subber role - so you get two points for subbing, basically. This can very easily lead to abuse, I guess.

[bozoli]

This pretty much sounds to me that it shouldn’t be done. If we’re subbing, we should “turn off” our function as a TE. At this point we can only add or remove ourselves as a TE, based on what we are currently doing on the project. But that is not a good long-term policy.

Best would be if Viki provided with an option to log ourselves into the Subtitle Editor based on a function before we start working on something.

[gonghina]

I’ve already got a headache. It was so easy and now it’s all complicated. They are already pointing fingers at everyone. We can semplify the matter by adding the TE role only to those languages who do not have the Subtitler role anymore, that is to say to all the pre-subbed languages.
This is already becoming a silent war.

[mirjam_465]

@gonghina

Did you notice this?

Isn’t this just logical? English TEs also have to fill in empty segments where needed.

[gonghina]

So, if I put myself as OL TE and translator and I start subbing an entire drama I’ll earn two points for each sub. No, for me it’s not logical.
And when they fill a gap, they should earn 1 point, not 2!

[mirjam_465]

@gonghina

and I start subbing an entire drama

Then sub it first, and then add yourself as TE and edit your work.

@gonghina

And when they fill a gap, they should earn 1 point, not 2!

Why?

Oh, by the way, for English TEs, it will always be an edit. Empty segments don’t exist anymore in English and Portuguese. The segmenters have to fill up every segment they create so when the TE comes in, it’s technically an edit.

[gonghina]

The problem is only for those who will add themselves as translator and TE at the same time. Do you think that everyone will add themselves as translator for episode 1. Then, they add themselves as TE and edit the first episode. Remove the nick from TE and translate the second episode? I think that someone (luckly not all) will add themselves as translator and TE at the same time. That’s the problem. I am talking about OLs, not English. I think that TE, GE and CE should all have this 2points thing!

[mirjam_465]

@gonghina

I think that someone (luckly not all) will add themselves as translator and TE

That is indeed likely to happen.

[spolochon]

• English TE are not the only TE, and they shouldn’t be the only TE.

• I guess that Gonghina meant that when you’re filling a gap, you’re doing a translator’s job, not specifically TE.

• Giving that position (TE) to those editing pre-subs and only pre-subs would be more simple, not belittling anyone, and no one would feel the need to strengthen their “territory” either.

• Pre-subs now exist in several different languages, not only English.

• Whatever the system is, a large majority of users (in any system) will do their best to stay within the rules, while a minority will always try to abuse the system. Even without these 2 points, I’m sure that a few users already abuse the current system (example: we’ve all heard multiple times or seen those users who add a space in all segments or nearly while the sentence is already finished, just to get one more point). It’s important to find the potential loopholes in this new system, but let’s not turn this into “oh, let’s be careful, many will surely do that from now on”.

[iashley]

I have definitely used up my annual word limit but just one more thought came to my mind. What happens if there’s a CE on an English Team who also acts as Korean/Chinese/Japanese/Thai TE, because they are qualified, and (let’s say) they work alone? They are allowed to do that, as Viki posted.

So, the CE-TE will make all “3 types” of edit (including those covered by GEs), and will get 2 points for all those changes, right? While on other English Teams, GEs and CEs making the same type of changes (“2 types”, apart from TE changes) will only get 1 point per change? This means sometimes “GE/CE changes” will be rewarded differently. Do you know what I mean? The CE-TE will not switch the TE role on and off in-between segments. It makes no sense.

This is just another scenario showing that ALL editors should be equally rewarded. Either give 2 points to ALL editors/editor roles, or leave just one editor role as before (whether with 1 or 2 points that’s a different matter, and Viki will decide however they please), but if editors are not all equal, in some scenarios it will be unfair.

[my_happy_place]

Speaking of the unintended, unfair idiosyncrasies of this system, consider this scenario:

When I am CE, I tell my TEs that they don’t have to worry about formatting if they have time constraints, but they are welcome to do it if they want to. So, let’s say the TE goes ahead and adds italics where needed or fixes the formatting of onscreen text. They get the 2 points. But if they like to use their time only for editing the translations, the GE or myself as the CE will come along behind and fix the formatting, but either of us would only get 1 point for the exact same task.

This isn’t the TE’s fault, but this is a result of how Viki has decided to implement this new system. I don’t know what the answer is, but I don’t think this is it.

[lyla]

Just for trying to prevent abuse/hoarding projects (as I’ve read about) plus in order to be fair for every volunteer, I think the two point system should be abolished. However…

If Viki means to reward properly the hard work of our Editors, no distinction should be made amongst them. Why? Because all of them are equally important.

A building can never have a second floor if we do not build the first one, right? If it is a higher building, no floor can be build if the previous one isn’t there.

The same applies to Editors. Their work is what some fields call scaffolding. No tier is more important than the other because each of them help building a great final product.

That’s why all Editors are equally essential and important to achieve quality subs.

Therefore, Viki, I earnestly ask you to please take a step back and keep the rewarding system as usual (subbers also help on building the amazing final product) or be fair to all Editors by rewarding them equally.

Thank you so much for considering it.
We greatly appreciate your understanding.

@vikicommunity

[xylune]

This is exactly why I am against the special treatment. Now people are discussing how “worthy” their contributions are and that they should earn more than others. However, there is the fact that the “double contributions” include mere subtitles, exclude some English Editors, don’t care for languages that can only edit (Portuguese) or Segmenters (that fortunately received a proper update lately). Instead, it’s all about how greatly people contribute. I am sure you do, but as long as this will lead to a disaster on the leaderboard, it should be just abandoned in my opinion. As a language moderator, I do tons of background work by making up documents with characters, translating lyrics without gaining a single contribution, researching terms… but just like when I do actual TE stuff I don’t need additional contributions for this. We accepted it like that. And we might as well just disregard those who are already at a disadvantage.

Please show some consideration for everyone’s work. Anyway, if I get double contributions as an English TE only I will not endanger the leaderboard unless I do OL work or take up tons of projects.

Given Viki’s explanation about anyone can actually add themselves, and we all know from the past how fast changes are actually implemented… not. So no one can basically rightfully punish people for it. But is it all right? I will not assign myself an OL TE role or do that in my projects. That concludes it.

@lyla

If Viki means to reward properly the hard work of our Editors, no distinction should be made amongst them. Why? Because all of them are equally important.

This is to increase the amount of TEs since they are actually a rare species. Can’t be compared to CEs jumping projects just to be the CE. However, it’s a simple idea that will not lead anywhere. Nobody becomes TE to gain some extra points while working slowly through editing jobs. It’s far easier for them to contribute in their native language (if it’s not English only). There’s no point and no TE asked for it either.