Huh…
The common agreement is: TE, GE and CE are English Team roles. Lately something weird happened and these terms were extended to the OL, but that doesn’t mean that it was accepted. When I say TE, GE and CE I mean English Team. There is no FE in the English Team.
When it comes to OL editors, they can be whatever they want, it just causes unnecessary confusion.
Do people from large communities really divide themselves into TE GE CE???
My point is not about being good or bad, doing their best or not. It’s just that the editor and the subber are two different roles. Two different responsibilities, difficulties and time requirements. Just that.
Tbf in most of the medium or small communities being a mod means being also an editor. That’s what I’m used to.
However even if mod=/=editor, I believe that the “extensive research, surfing through the transcripts, checking other sites to be sure about the titles of the characters, sending feedback to the subbers, creating a spreadsheet, writing to the editors to verify the segments I’m not sure of” part of my message still applies to the editor role
Hello!
New TE role question (also here!)
We’ve been testing this new role of TE in a drama in these days. I often translate alone my projects. I always add myself as mod and translator. Sometimes as editor when I do it alone, otherwise I add my friend that helps me in the edit.
In these days, I added, removed me, counted the subs and bla bla.
Then, I decided to add myself as translator and TE and I noticed that I gained 2 points by creating the sub by scratch. I thought we should earn two points just by editing the subtitle but it’s not like that.
Did you notice this? Should we consider this as abuse? Thank you
Glad we tried! I guess they probably didn’t think of adding a filter that made sure those 2 points are only granted if you edit (i.e. if a sub from someone else is already present in the segment and the TE edits it), instead of subbing in an empty segment.
Since English TE usually only have one role in a channel, it shouldn’t be a problem for them. But for OL who work alone and are Moderator, Editor and subber together, the TE role overrides the subber role - so you get two points for subbing, basically. This can very easily lead to abuse, I guess.
This pretty much sounds to me that it shouldn’t be done. If we’re subbing, we should “turn off” our function as a TE. At this point we can only add or remove ourselves as a TE, based on what we are currently doing on the project. But that is not a good long-term policy.
Best would be if Viki provided with an option to log ourselves into the Subtitle Editor based on a function before we start working on something.
I’ve already got a headache. It was so easy and now it’s all complicated. They are already pointing fingers at everyone. We can semplify the matter by adding the TE role only to those languages who do not have the Subtitler role anymore, that is to say to all the pre-subbed languages.
This is already becoming a silent war.
So, if I put myself as OL TE and translator and I start subbing an entire drama I’ll earn two points for each sub. No, for me it’s not logical.
And when they fill a gap, they should earn 1 point, not 2!
Then sub it first, and then add yourself as TE and edit your work.
Why?
Oh, by the way, for English TEs, it will always be an edit. Empty segments don’t exist anymore in English and Portuguese. The segmenters have to fill up every segment they create so when the TE comes in, it’s technically an edit.
The problem is only for those who will add themselves as translator and TE at the same time. Do you think that everyone will add themselves as translator for episode 1. Then, they add themselves as TE and edit the first episode. Remove the nick from TE and translate the second episode? I think that someone (luckly not all) will add themselves as translator and TE at the same time. That’s the problem. I am talking about OLs, not English. I think that TE, GE and CE should all have this 2points thing!
English TE are not the only TE, and they shouldn’t be the only TE.
I guess that Gonghina meant that when you’re filling a gap, you’re doing a translator’s job, not specifically TE.
Giving that position (TE) to those editing pre-subs and only pre-subs would be more simple, not belittling anyone, and no one would feel the need to strengthen their “territory” either.
Pre-subs now exist in several different languages, not only English.
Whatever the system is, a large majority of users (in any system) will do their best to stay within the rules, while a minority will always try to abuse the system. Even without these 2 points, I’m sure that a few users already abuse the current system (example: we’ve all heard multiple times or seen those users who add a space in all segments or nearly while the sentence is already finished, just to get one more point). It’s important to find the potential loopholes in this new system, but let’s not turn this into “oh, let’s be careful, many will surely do that from now on”.
I have definitely used up my annual word limit but just one more thought came to my mind. What happens if there’s a CE on an English Team who also acts as Korean/Chinese/Japanese/Thai TE, because they are qualified, and (let’s say) they work alone? They are allowed to do that, as Viki posted.
So, the CE-TE will make all “3 types” of edit (including those covered by GEs), and will get 2 points for all those changes, right? While on other English Teams, GEs and CEs making the same type of changes (“2 types”, apart from TE changes) will only get 1 point per change? This means sometimes “GE/CE changes” will be rewarded differently. Do you know what I mean? The CE-TE will not switch the TE role on and off in-between segments. It makes no sense.
This is just another scenario showing that ALL editors should be equally rewarded. Either give 2 points to ALL editors/editor roles, or leave just one editor role as before (whether with 1 or 2 points that’s a different matter, and Viki will decide however they please), but if editors are not all equal, in some scenarios it will be unfair.
Speaking of the unintended, unfair idiosyncrasies of this system, consider this scenario:
When I am CE, I tell my TEs that they don’t have to worry about formatting if they have time constraints, but they are welcome to do it if they want to. So, let’s say the TE goes ahead and adds italics where needed or fixes the formatting of onscreen text. They get the 2 points. But if they like to use their time only for editing the translations, the GE or myself as the CE will come along behind and fix the formatting, but either of us would only get 1 point for the exact same task.
This isn’t the TE’s fault, but this is a result of how Viki has decided to implement this new system. I don’t know what the answer is, but I don’t think this is it.
This is exactly why I am against the special treatment. Now people are discussing how “worthy” their contributions are and that they should earn more than others. However, there is the fact that the “double contributions” include mere subtitles, exclude some English Editors, don’t care for languages that can only edit (Portuguese) or Segmenters (that fortunately received a proper update lately). Instead, it’s all about how greatly people contribute. I am sure you do, but as long as this will lead to a disaster on the leaderboard, it should be just abandoned in my opinion. As a language moderator, I do tons of background work by making up documents with characters, translating lyrics without gaining a single contribution, researching terms… but just like when I do actual TE stuff I don’t need additional contributions for this. We accepted it like that. And we might as well just disregard those who are already at a disadvantage.
Please show some consideration for everyone’s work. Anyway, if I get double contributions as an English TE only I will not endanger the leaderboard unless I do OL work or take up tons of projects.
Given Viki’s explanation about anyone can actually add themselves, and we all know from the past how fast changes are actually implemented… not. So no one can basically rightfully punish people for it. But is it all right? I will not assign myself an OL TE role or do that in my projects. That concludes it.
This is to increase the amount of TEs since they are actually a rare species. Can’t be compared to CEs jumping projects just to be the CE. However, it’s a simple idea that will not lead anywhere. Nobody becomes TE to gain some extra points while working slowly through editing jobs. It’s far easier for them to contribute in their native language (if it’s not English only). There’s no point and no TE asked for it either.
Here is why OL editors should get rewarded. I do edition in French. When I’m editing, I sometimes spend 30 to 45 minutes on one part and get 20, 25 contributions. If I translate, in the same time, I will get 150 contributions. I don’t really care about rewards in fact, so I do it anyways because ol editing is highly underrated. For me it as important as translating and we need people to do it. If increasing the reward make people want to edit than it’s worth it.
I do OL moderation, which is 20-30min of preparation per episode without a single contribution. For proper editing, you might gain around 100 contributions per episode. Translation Editing results in similar numbers. Certainly, not caring or delaying editing for OL especially is a thing, I will not deny it. However, it’s the result of striving for new projects all the time. Some people participate in 15 projects, moderate another 5 and have an endless pile of unedited projects. This can be criticized and is worth mentioning it, but there is no perfect solution to it, especially if you’re not doing Spanish where they have x editors per project and a lot of competition regarding the project distribution. Medium-sized languages such as German have a growing list of untranslated / semi-translated projects, and other people consider it an amazing idea to grab 3+ projects and sit on them like a dragon on its treasure for a year or two. This behavior as well leads to moderators thinking they should rather apply than waiting for a better time or until they took care of some old, translated project. There are issues everywhere, but even if they are addressed, those involved may not reconsider their own behavior for one reason or another. I just want to point out that it takes some time to point out all the aspects. Another reason might be “solo translators” that often have issues completing a project (in time) or in some cases don’t necessarily meet the standards. All of this may lead to criticizable behavior, but how can this be changed in the first place?!
The CMs don’t have any good reason in accordance with the guidelines either to reject moderators if they meet the requirements. Even if you know they are doing it alone or that they may lack experience. You can request them to find a Co-Mod or to meet certain “goals”, but a semi-translated project that’s abandoned will likely not be completed anytime soon.
Generally speaking, being superficial is something you’ll stumble upon many times on Viki. Ranging from superficial English editing to superficial general editing and superficial “CVs” that mainly show you how much a person didn’t participate in certain projects assigned to them. Anyway, this is probably over the top here.
While many older projects were edited so far, there are still some around that provide a quality that can’t be watched at all. But doubling contributions for editors will result in doubling contributions for subtitlers. If anything, I’d rather say it’s worth having temporary events that reward editing for example and focus on putting this step into the center of attention.
I don’t think the first question requires a reply, and I rather consider it a rhetorical question. As you may know, it’s common to ask the TE to join instead of them asking you. However, it’s doubtful that being a TE is that attractive in the first place. Instead, it’s usually a story about being encouraged that you can actually do this. Becoming a CE is more about being confident that you can pull it off. Certainly, you can argue that CEs have a hard job meeting all these deadlines, and sometimes it’s rather like another full-time job. If those few people decide to only invest 3 hours per week into Viki we would have issues with the amount of CEs. But I would rather compare the motivation to be a CE to the motivation you have as an OL moderator. It differs in my opinion. However, I won’t say that you can’t admire them for their determination and efforts.
In fact, it’s not that easy to voice my personal opinion in that regard, I did some English editing in all roles, I did OL moderation… and you’re often confronted with the English team’s work. Sometimes everyone put in lots of efforts, sometimes you will notice issues regarding the quality or the speed (which isn’t that much of an issue nowadays since most dramas are released after QC for further translation). How they react to your reports or how one of your fellow language moderators is stuck for years in the same project. There’s light and shadow, so it’s a good thing to have another couple of reliable and qualified editors in the future (edited to avoid misunderstandings).
I use quotes to point out my opinion, quoting people doesn’t mean that I disagree with everything or that I wanted to sum up a couple of posts. I just explain why I think that the whole reward matter should just be dropped instead of discussing and highlighting the importance of whatever Viki role.
Discussions are just discussions. It’s not a personal vendetta or anything. While I didn’t agree on some points discussed above prior to my last post, I decided not to address them.
Out of your mind interpreting my sentence, I guess. I don’t think that the following part contradicts the statement that CEs are (often) hardworking people:
However, basically the sentence just means to point out that people are applying as CEs by themselves usually compared to the fact, that you often have to contact TEs directly to recruit them. Furthermore, there are some management aspects.
No worries, it sounded a bit flippant, I suppose. If you work on few projects, you may have some time to check everything a few times. The more projects there are, the harder it gets, unless you invest way more time. When I started editing, I checked every episode twice. At one point, that became difficult. Still, some people even want editors to watch the whole episode while editing. While I agree there are advantages, I think it’s hard to manage, especially if you have multiple projects. In the end, I have to keep questioning myself if I can meet the requirements (and my own expectations) or not, it’s truly challenging. I think it’s great they removed some pressure which led to having more classical teams instead of having one CE by themselves. So increasing the numbers is crucial to keep this sort of quality assurance.
To some extent, yes. But many CEs I know really apply, at least in case of dramas. Movies might be different.
but just one more thought came to my mind. What happens if there’s a CE on an English Team who also acts as Korean/Chinese/Japanese/Thai TE, because they are qualified, and (let’s say) they work alone? They are allowed to do that, as Viki posted.
