Viki , I really wish you would explain to the people why sometimes some of these dramas are not subbed. we think of a “magic fix” done zapped instantly . why don’t you explain they have a life, as well, and the time zones for goodness sake! I should have thought of that one! yeah I have been one of those impatient people, but not anymore! I got a nice message from someone today explaining the subbers plight, can we not be informeed before we start complaining? my apologies to the subbers for being impatient!
At least for new dramas there is an infobox saying “Subtitling in progress! All subtitles are written by our amazing volunteer community. Learn more” with a link. I can’t remember anymore how I figured out that it’s done by a community… Maybe it was the “Top volunteers” section on the start page… not sure. So far I assumed those impatient people don’t want to understand, that volunteers have a live as well. Interesting point to read someone honestly didn’t know.
You should be aware it’s not JUST subtitle writers (translators or transcribers, and some captioners). Subtitles have to be placed into “segments”. These are spaces made with proper timing on the bare video by more volunteers called “segmenters”.
They have to be specially trained to get this correct, and it takes on the order of 1 to 6 months OF ADDITIONAL EFFORT on their own time to learn this too for free.
And then to be sure it’s correct, many dramas use a Translation Editor.
Then there’s the English Editor - along with a person who checks the segmenting for Quality control too.
All this - and the organizational talents of the Moderators who hire and help the translators/subbers, and the Channel Manager who spends more time in organizing and helping move the team forward…and gets a lot of those emails from people demanding their subs immediately.
Also tries to find way to diplomatically suggest viewers - even those who PAY for a viki pass, remain calm and patient and not run off the VOLUNTEERS WHO DO THE WORK.
That NOTICE you point out does very little to prevent the nasty notes. Read the comment sections…sigh.
Segmenters do not have to know the language they are working with, you can volunteer and take the journey to help yourself if you wish.
FANS…become VOLUNTEERS…yes, that’s how it is.
We do it for LOVE. we are NOT PAID. So support your TEAMS IF YOU WANT THE END RESULT, YOUR SUBTITLES.
And now, back to working on my channels.
Crouching Dieter, Hidden Donut
I do read the comment sections and that is why I assumed so far that these people are just ignorant, because I see even viki pass users complaining. I know segmenting, subbing, moderating and so on takes a lot of effort. How come those people don’t get it? I don’t know. Maybe it would help to have an info at the beginning of each video, but I doubt it will really prevent those messages.
boy have I learned a lot today!! I love that name crouching dieter hidden donut. anyway everyone, one more time my apologies, and the training too so see it does take time to translate these dramas! yeah I just recently became one of those viki pass people
as for segmenters, I do hesitate due to not knowing the languages well, Just English I sure wish I knew before hand before I started complaining, ! so you guys & gals, thanks for my lessons for the day a really good to know lesson. * I just don’t want to mess something up per the segmenting. and good to know some do read the comments. so we should watch what we say, huh? I will from now on!
I have suggested many times that a post explaining the whole process be “pinned” on top of the comment section for all to see, as a “featured post”. A Channel Manager can ask viki to make a post “featured post”.
Another option would be to put this under every video episode, in “Description” (again any Moderator can do that from Manage --> Videos
But so far it hasn’t been implemented by anyone.
somebody needs to do this, my learning experience is great, and I’d like to see that come into existence, irmar. soapbox time. I am sure you don’t understand the phrase, its when someone takes a stand and speaks their mind, course in a nice way! maybe some of the managers, subbers ought to “band” together and say something???
By the way, you can learn to segment English shows. There are some here at Viki.
You could also caption for English shows, typing in English, into blanks too.
Segmenting - well, if you get sufficiently trained and have a knack for it, you can do it for languages you are unlikely to speak… It is easier (generally) though when you learn a few things about the language to improve the skill to make the subtitles better by phrasing things as sentences or knowing what a word is or isn’t.
So consider applying for the Ninja Academy, try the Sandbox, and if you find you are doing well, complete the full diploma after sandbox - that’s 5 levels - and you will then be qualified to work ANY drama you will probably want to work…and get offers for okay, every drama that needs help.
That’s a lot of dramas.
Think it over, look at their site,and ask questions. Read their excellent documentation - and see how you feel. Only you can answer if you are willing to learn it and it is not easy.
But it is pretty cool and yes, without the segments…the dramas go out with no subs. The world then cannot share them!
sigh. My humor has only halfway returned, so I threw on this old thing…
Crouching Dieter, Hidden Donut
Yes, I agree that Viki should do a better job of explaining how subbing process works here and set the expectation. Meanwhile, many volunteers have explained this whole thing over and over and over and over again in so many different ways and forms - both in the comment sections and in this discussion forum.
Here’s just one example of how I tried explaining the subbing process in this forum. This was written in 2013.
There are many others who have explained and even made some cute graphic presentations in many different languages so viewers understand the process. But since Viki is making many dramas Viki Pass exclusive, many members feel entitled since they “pay for it,” even though they are not actually paying for subtitles. Some viewers are appreciative once they find out how it works. However, I’ve encountered some other viewers who don’t care and demand volunteers to work day and night to meet their needs.
Some of the rather infamous quotes that I remember are something like, “You signed up for it so you should be responsible and get the job done now!” “You lured me into buying this pass, implying that there will be subtitles done by volunteers but why aren’t there there?!” And worst of all, some say volunteers are mean dictators who like to be worshipped and begged to have the subtitles done. Geesh! I sometimes wonder what kind of people they really are!
Just this week, I had subbed an episode in just about 4 hours. There were only 2 other subbers who came and helped out that day. But when I went to the comment section to read about what people think of the episode, I read so many complaints about subtitles not being there as soon as the episode was uploaded. One person actually wrote, “The subtitle for this drama has been soooooo slow lately!”
But anyway, I am glad you now understand how things work here.
I do enjoy volunteering by subbing and translation editing so non-Korean speaking viewers can enjoy some of these wonderful dramas that I love. I’ve also met some great people by volunteering here.
If you want to volunteer, there are a lot of excellent resources, such as Ninja Academy and subbing guidelines. In addition, we have a wonderful community of people who will be more than willing to help you. However, it’s completely up to you. If you choose not to volunteer, that’s perfectly fine. It doesn’t matter what the reason is. Aside from not knowing other foreign languages, you could be busy, you may not feel confident about learning new techniques, you may not be good with working on computers, you’d rather spend more time watching than captioning, etc.
It sound like you’ve already paid for the Viki pass so you can enjoy the shows without ADs. As for me, I don’t expect viewers to be so grateful and always applauding. I just don’t want to hear complaints and be accused of something that we are not. I’ll just be happy if viewers patiently wait for the subbing to be completed and then enjoy the show.
thank you! I have learned my lessons well! just wish others would too!
In my opinion, no one can tell how hard segmenting or subbing is. They don’t even have the faintest idea of how much and how hard this work is. Even if you are really good in 2 languages speed, (your subs have no need for the use a dictionary (etc,) There still a lot of hard work involved more than all this complainers can ever imagine.
The idea I had was to make a video where ANYONE who wants to do so can go and practice doing segments or subs. This video would need to have a time limit to do the work. It doesn’t need a lot of segments or subbing to do 10, should be enough . For the segs we need a seg timer video. For the subs of course, the sub editor.
Instructions should be given and a brief example shown in the video. Once they start sweating bullets trying to pass this test they will realize that is not as easy as they think. Not everyone can do seg or subtitle. Some volunteers do segments not knowing the language and make a lot of mistakes cutting the seg. wrong. I see this happening a lot in the spanish dramas.
I also had the horrible experience in subbing dramas with so called, ‘‘graduates in segmenting–’’ but all they put in a seg is 3 words! YES, 3 words and Incomplete sentences, words cut in half! you name it… SMH.
If we do this video it would be kind of a test and whoever pass this test can start subbing or segging depending on their skills/strength. It will cut the risk of having so many ‘‘volunteers’’ waiting to be able to join as a subber or segger
They should also make a page where the name of subber or segger is added with their skills mentioned and also what Languages they know. Moderators can go to this page and request directly to them to work in a drama since their page link will be added there also and passing the test will certified their skills whether they are skillful in subbing or segging. That’s my 2 cents here.
Ignorance is a curable problem, so I post informational posts to the pages when possible and necessary to explain to the people posting how this works.
Many times the person will then realize hey, I was going about this the wrong way and start to post something to support the team.
Except, of course, when you get the other reaction. (shrug). At least you’ve tried to help the ignorance by education and that is all you can do. Except complete their subs for them…sigh.
Crouching Dieter, Hidden Donut
(just this old name for the moment, the humor is still heavily bandaged)
For Kor-Eng viki made a test and decided to pick some rather long lines. 3 minutes is a long time.
The second scene had a lot of medicalese so I thought that was harder than necessary too.
As for segging… isn’t that why the ninja or seg101 badge is there? I am not the most proficient at Spanish in fact I am terrified of it so even if I were to be ninja grad (i will do it soon!) my spanish would be terrible.
There are NSSA Language specialists dunno about in other program. Specialization is done with a mentor who is a speaker of the language to give segger the POV of someone who speaks the language. Like all languages it is built on a pattern so even if you don’t know any of the language I am confident anyone who puts in effort can be good at it.
For seggers personally I don’t expect things to be perfectly cut esp since non-native video language speakers do the cutting! Oftentimes I regroup some segs as I sub and pm the original segger in case they want to see some feedback as to how one can cut more naturally?
For example NSSA tends to go for 3-4 sec segs but for me if I see a sentence is only 6 segs I would put it together especially if it displays as less than 1 line. In general I cut 2 sentences per seg (2 line rule).
What is annoying is when… I can’t think of a way of preserving the presentation order and keeping good English. Then sometimes I combine them all into one seg esp if they are speaking slowly.
In a way I think subbers and seggers are kinda vetted by the chief segger and chief editors. Of course newbies are welcome but many are invited to work on projects due to positive past experiences.
(raising brows) if you have time to resegment everything to your liking, well, then maybe you should edit instead of sub - if you have the expertise to fix all of it together? Except…up above, you say you didn’t PASS the test to graduate from Ninja Academy…right? SO say you’re on a drama with an actual graduate and you are resegmenting their work…you might not be qualified to do that…right? In which case, they might be righteously upset and you might cost the project one of the few qualified segmenters, right?
“Kinda vetted” One would hope the folks who hire know who they are hiring, yes. And if you weren’t hired TO SEGMENT, perhaps this means you should NOT…!
Those who do really great work will never go wanting for something to do. We all work to get acknowledged.
Here are few links to read up although it does not specify that volunteers have a life besides volunteering (free will contributing) . Also no matter how often you explain, there will be always newbies asking: “where are the subs”… I just chuckle, remembering some years ago writing similar line, “the subs are slow”, lol, lacruiser initiated me to try subbing which I did but years later since I had no clue what I would let myself into. Enjoy!
Yes, more times i have told that you can be caption until i sent the links where you can help.
I still blame YOU. NI! yes YOU for my falling into the abyss of vikibugs and other hazards!
I was peacefully commenting with typical candor and humor and you asked me, “would you become a Vikian”.
Sigh…I failed to see the cage door behind me snap shut.
Crouching Dieter, Hidden Donut
humor currently in PT sigh…
I resegment parts so that it is easier to sub a complete sentence than do some grammar trick to keep it in segment order. (sometimes not always)
The real reason I look at the segments at all is for missing segments. Sometimes they get missed and this is very bad as in it might never get fixed. Another thing I may recut is song lyrics. There is a natural end to a song line and it is easier if it is cut up consistently each time.
It’s really for little things like this ><
Lol, it’s like the fly bait, you liked the sugar coating now you are stuck, lol, “another bribed member oops victim”.
I’m truly sorry, I do tell to take breaks not sitting consistently at the keyboard… but sometime the little devil says one more box, one more thing and one more comment… and it’s already midnight…
Well, I should scold lacruiser for giving me the hint I think it’s a pure domino effect!!
I found some more newbies trying the fly bait today, oh the humor
In the end we still do this for the Love of dramas and the Viki community and our friendship
today I had 2 channel masters email me, and I guess to everyone that watches their dramas, well I responded and thanked them for a job well done, and I did tell them about my"lessons" well learned this week! guys & gals I do want to thank you for enlightening me about subbers and all. I really hope that the public will really find out what goes behind the subbing.
simi11 that sounds like me with my genealogy, hehehehe ,
I will look into ithat ninja acadamy