Subtitle formatting

[piranna]

I was looking for the article saying that we should add a space before or after breaks, but couldn’t find it anymore, I’ve read these articles and discovered new things:

https://support.viki.com/hc/en-us/articles/200264599-Formatting-subtitles

https://support.viki.com/hc/en-us/articles/218654277

I think the article about “How do I delete my subtitles?” needs some modification: subbers can delete subs from the subtitle editor (and avoid entering the segment timer).

10 min to update on the video, roger!

[kobolt]

@piranna : “In TV apps like Roku and Smart TVs, the break will not be rendered and the words will run together.” This is why it is necessary to put a space before or after the “break”, I think.

[piranna]

Thanks! I don’t remember the article or the reason, but ur probably right!

[lutra]

@piranna https://support.viki.com/hc/en-us/articles/218654277-Adding-breaks-in-subtitles

[piranna]

It’s the article I’ve read above I remember another version of this article?

[piranna]

Do you still add breaks mid-sentence?
I remember wanting to watch on phone with an internet browser, but had hard time to watch with breaks so not watching on phone anymore. Reluctant to download the Viki app because takes storage whereas I will occasionnely use it. So in the end no Viki dramas on phone.

[lutra]

??? https://support.viki.com/hc/en-us/articles/200264599-Formatting-subtitles

https://discussions.viki.com/t/subtitle-formatting/608

[cgwm808]

I think (but am not sure), Carly who wrote those articles worked at viki a long time ago, well before the majority of viewers watched on tablets and phones. As @angelight313_168 said, some platforms re-wrap the subtitle so if there are breaks in the sub, and the platform recognizes the break, (roku does not) you might end up with text over the whole screen. I discovered this years ago when the IOS app was being beta tested for the first time. Since then I tell subbers on the channels I am on that breaks are to be used ONLY for two people’s dialogue in the same segment or to separate dialogue and music lyric or dialogue and text on screen. The articles by Carly also don’t mention that control-b creates the break signal. ctrl-i creates the beginning and end for italics and crtrl-J creates a pair of music notes and italics symbols. Putting the opening italic signal without the end is fine because the system automatically terminates italics at the end of the subtitle. Can you imagine the havoc years ago when we had to make sure the end of italics symbol was somewhere – otherwise every sub after the first appearance of the start of italics signal was in italics. It was like writing a mathematical equation making sure the brackets were all paired.

[piranna]

Thanks but I’ve already read it above.
Do we see the same thing on this page? (The screen I took is up).

[piranna]

I don’t know for Jdramas, but for the dramas I’ve tried to watch, whenever we force breaks mid-sentence: “volunteers breaks” appear + “natural breaks”(breaks not added by volunteers but added automatically. Dk where it’s from, size of the screen or somth else).

• If ppl force breaks: I see 3 or 4 lines of subs taking a good part of my screen and the scene behind subs. The second line could have 2 or little words because of a forced break + the natural break (2 breaks). If the sentence is longer, 3 breaks. It is difficult to read or enjoy watching a drama in this display.

+I’d like to enjoy watching a drama on Viki without having adds from other websites, in the train, during my commuting time or without having to get my computer that I don’t always have on me. After a day at work, I’m exhausted so I like to watch lying on my bed on my phone.

• If adding breaks mid-sentence can cause troubles for others or for some devices, is it worth it? Finally, what was the intention behind mid-sentence breaks?

• adding time to edit by adding breaks or moving a misplaced break by a word, some could call it “breaks contributions” that could be not seen favorably by other editors out there & some might misinterpret it as a way to boost contributions (400x how many episodes). If I care about contributions, I would invest my time here.
  Obviously, it pays well for little efforts and I could use the excuse of “cosmetic breaks.” Nobody will signal me.

[cgwm808]

I understand members of community support have brought up the break issue several times with the tech staff. Community support understands what we are talking about. I wonder if the engineers ever actually watch drama on their smart phones?

[piranna]

Actually, the problem is not taken under the right angle. The source of the problem: Viki or volunteers?

*Ex:
Viewers complain about why there are no subs to volunteers or Viki, but what does it have to do with us? There is an article which says the subs are done by volunteers and under the video, a clear message says that:

The problem is not coming from volunteers, but from buyers who believed that the service included immediate subs.

*Same thing here:
If ppl are adding breaks randomly, what does it have to do with engineers or Viki who clearly states:

“Please avoid adding breaks arbitrarly mid-sentence. In TV apps like Roku and Smart TVs, the break will not be rendered and the words will run together.”

1.The rule is like this because Viki is aware of this, otherwise this rule won’t even exist.
2. Who is ignoring this rule? Viki engineers or volunteers?
3.We can’t feign ignorance over this article when we are an experienced moderator or manager.
It is even harder to feign it once we answer to a question I asked about breaks and quoting the second part of the same paragraph. We also can’t feign it if after quoting the same article and despite being aware, continue to add breaks in less than 24 hours.
4. So if it’s not ignorance, it’s done delibarately, right? If delibarely and if it cause troubles for viewers.
Why volunteers would arbitrarly add breaks?
Is there a more legit reason?
Or volunteers think the troubles they cause to others can be neglected or they don’t care about it?
If they don’t care for this display, do volunteers selflessly sub for themselves to see or boost their contributions by adding breaks arbitrarly?
Do we volunteer for others to watch in a correct display or I can also randomly decide I would add breaks to every drama I’m working on?

the rule is like that. If I were manager, moderator or editor and a volunteer shows me this article and that a few volunteers tell just like here that indeed, it causes a display that is making hard to watch a drama, what should I do as a volunteer? Keep doing that despite Viki words and other volunteers words (for what legit reason now? Do I overlook Viki article or other volunteers feedback and only listen to myself?) Or will I take a second look and think?

I can’t find excuses or say that it’s Viki’s fault. It’s written in black and white.

[piranna]

Also, I can’t find excuses and have low tolerance over some matters such as:
-moderators who create secondary accounts to ask for moderation.
-moderators in drama 1 who coax their subbers to take a new drama for them as a moderator and take them in the team, but in reality, the concrete moderator is indeed… the same mod in drama 1.
-and who dares to comment in public on Disqus that they didn’t ask for the moderation for this drama (for whatever reason… too many dramas perhaps or don’t have time? Whatever lie)
-liers who manipulate really well other volunteers to have some favors, especially on Viki since the stake is laughable.
-and is representing the nssa? Really? I hope it’s not morals that they teach as senseis. Or are they looking for more volunteers to use and manipulate in their own team? Or is it to save appearance?

I can’t find excuses for this kind of behaviour. All esteem has been shred by the same individual(s) and thrown in the sewers.
Selfish in all its glory. Hard to believe, but I’ve been fooled once (idiot I am to believe that I could trust a volunteer’s words on Viki: of course, a Cm always taking the same moderator without asking, it’s not the moderator’s fault for not saying no… I have wanted to believe in the goodness of these words, but not anymore after this pile of acts)

The lessons I’ve leant: I’ve found more manipulators on Viki than in real life, especially among volunteers, moderators, editors and CM. Never trust a volunteer by his apparance or words.
Maybe some volunteers are like viewers behind a screen, without inhibition and forget about ethics, morals, or have empathy over other mates who play indeed fair when they ask moderation.
When you act like that, can we say that you care about other volunteers? Obviously not.
Indeed, what a beautiful community. Helpful in appearance but rotten in his heart.

And ppl like that represent the community as mods, Cm on Viki?

If anyone can act without regards on Viki rules or other mods and volunteers, then why should I care about others, too?
Is it because I am volunteer on Viki that I can act without a care on Viki?
Is that legit?
And there’s no one who would react, not even Viki?
So you agree with this kind of behaviour? We can do the same to you, you agree? I can do the same, it’s all right?

No wonder some people flee from this community. Among volunteers, there’s something off, why should ppl stay when encountering ppl like that?

Don’t legitimate this type of acts and disguise them as right when they are clearly wrong.

The thing I dislike the most: injustice, unfairness.

[lutra]

@piranna You didn’t go into detail, so your post is a bit off, when it comes to subtitle formatting.
But I can understand your point, if nothing goes wrong, I will have my 10th anniversary next year at Viki. But I had some breaks 7 months was my longest, I must say. If you add all of them together, it may be a year less than it shows on my account.
Frustration is natural once in a while. I do not join any on air dramas any longer I did at the start. I jumped from one project to the other and after project 3 or, so I took on moderators position. The last one I did when one of my family members got sick and after that there was too much time to spent on more vital things, than Viki.
When I look at my native language it’s a phanomen, that 90-95% of on air/coming soon projects be it Korean or Chinese are with one moderator. Doing tv series and movies. A few months ago, I saw a movie channel with no moderators listed or added, asked for the moderators position is already filled, guess by whom? If I want to join as a subber? For me a movie with around 1000 subs is a project either for a weekend if I have the time, or about 3-4 weekends, if I need to “make” time. I prefer that I can lock the subtitles myself then. But it doesn’t matter, since I am helping out on a project with 50 episodes. It’s a drama I have re-watch probably a dozen times, so it’s no problem to dive into it, whenever I have the time.
But still it’s like the rabbit and the hedgehog …
But maybe for this “talk” we should create another discussion topic.

[piranna]

If no one says it, no one would know it for the same mod in a particular language.
I know for French language because it’s my native language.
So for German and other languages, I don’t check except when it’s recruiting matter.
But I think I know who you’re talking about?
I don’t have a particular past, but a memory: when I took a German mod (different person), the reaction was a little strange.
But I am allowed to take another moderator, right?

Actually, it works like that (you must know it, I think)
You have more chance to be selected as a moderator if you are CM if the mods are numbers (“chance”, let’s not say the word “privileges”)
Why?
Not a CM? You can’t be “used” to take a moderation position later.
So if as a CM, you take a moderator, considering it’s a favor you gave, you expect that this moderator when he will become CM on another drama, he will give you a moderation position too.

So many moderators/CM are tied like that.
Pros and cons: pros are obvious.
Cons (in my pov): you lose a part of your freedom and can’t say your opinion or can’t refuse some mods because they are CM on dramas you are or will be CMs on future dramas.

So between being tied by a relationship like that and being free: I’m telling you, I would have picked your choice. My freedom has no price and seeing people like that on a website you’re supposed to have fun, I just feel pity for them.
For real. They are bound in a way that is not really promoting the “human” relationships. It’s a give-me-sth/I’ll-give-you-sth relationship.
It’s not what I’m seeking here.

Have fun on the 50 ep
Old dramas are a haven of peace,some might be boring for some scenes sometimes, but other volunteers won’t bother you here.
Same for created contents or reality shows.

But in a way, some could say, “it’s not letting crumbles to other volunteers by taking the big cake?”

I’m going to move on another discussion. I have hard time to discuss the same thing on a same topic, there’s no square for me.

[irmar]

Piranna dear, what’s wrong? You seem very distressed and your nervers at breaking point. Like a person who had too much work or study and too little sleep. You got me very worried tonight. Please take good care of yourself, nobody else will do it for you! Okay?
We are fond of you and appreciate you for who you are. Don’t let bad thoughts cloud your mind. There is a number of people here who are your friends, so please focus on the good, no need to poison your aura with unpleasant thoughts.
Sending you lots and lots of love and smiles.

I.

[piranna]

I have graduated already
Lack of sleep, overworking, yes, I have these symptoms, Eomoni. (I’m waiting for my period that doesn’t come)
But thinking carefully about why I’m suddenly reacting this way (it’s a good thing you ask me this because might as well reflect), I think that my condition doesn’t change my opinion on some matters and some past events or acts that some did can’t be changed. We can’t go back in time. Something not normal still remains not normal.

Now, if it’s proper or not, I have thought about it.
If by keeping being proper, injustice remains and nothing can be done by keeping silent, I’ve decided not to stay proper toward some situations.
My silence is only playing in favor of some individuals, so they can still feel free to do some acts that are hard to consider as normal.
And my ability to transform bad into good is greatly reduced in this case. I can’t find excuses, not anymore.

Nobody will do this for me, neither.

I’m focusing on translating Chinese novels from English-French, my new hobby. At least, there, there is no poison to make people sick.

You told me that people on viki were like in real life and instead, change my views. But others have to change their views, too.

I love you! Yes, I will conduct myself better. But they better not bother to continue with this masquerade and play fair in exchange.

[irmar]

I didn’t tell you to change your views, darling, only to have less high expectations of perfection from human beings, to avoid disappointment and feelings of betrayal. Of course, if the person who did such things used to be your friend, then these feelings are unavoidable, but if she’s not, then just a mild disgust is enough. And some corrective action.

Yes, it’s perfectly okay to expose bad practices, I am all for it! But those rivers of desperate text in several threads, related or not, disconnected and vague, so long that very few will read them, don’t serve their purpose well.

I’ve worked for more than 20 years as a journalist and I’ve learned that the best article is useless unless you write and format it so that the people are willing to read it. And people don’t have the patience to waddle through stuff, they want the information to be presented to them in a time-saving and organized way. Especially if they’re not - yet - passionately concerned about the subject. Give an informative and catchy title to draw people’s interest immediately. And the gist of it should be in the very first sentence.

Rest for a while, go for a walk or have some comfort food, then gather your thoughts. Then go to an appropriate thread or make a new one. Write something coherent, specific, brief and to the point, with headings, paragraphs and bulleted lists, that people can understand easily and respond to - and probably they will also add to it, because of course these disgraceful occurrences are not only in the French community.

And of course… please report these people abusing the Viki system. Urge others who know the situation first-hand to report them as well. Repeatedly, until Viki takes action. They are a bit slow in these cases, especially if it’s a well-known and old-time moderator.

P.S.
As for the NSSA, if I tell you the reason why the Italian subbing academy hasn’t yet been created, you will laugh and cry at the same time.

[spoiler]The reason is there is more than one candidate for the job and they cannot choose among them for fear of being unfair.
There are the two factions in the Italian community, who have a sort of monopoly on all popular shows, who hate each other and won’t collaborate even with a gun on their head. Plus me, a third one, running as an independent candidate. NSSA higher-ups wrote me a message saying they don’t want to offend anyone so they prefer to not give the job to anyone “for now”. This was many months ago and I’m not expecting it to change.

Actually they are sort of right. How can they know who will do a better job? It’s me of course, but they have no way of knowing it. First, because they don’t know the language. But even if they did, it’s not only about the language, it’s about teaching. They don’t know the training/coaching job each of us does - or, in one case, doesn’t do - behind the scenes with new subbers.[/spoiler]

[teufelchen_netty_266]

is there for every language a academy?

• i wonder

[piranna]

No, not my friend, I don’t have this attitude toward friends or old friends. I’d defend an old friend if it’s right to do so (contrary to some ppl who will use their friends and not defend them and pick the CM’s side). I don’t want friends like that. A friend supports you no matter who they have in front of them, not the contrary.

You know me already. I don’t like injustice.
It’s even harder for me to understand injustice on Viki. In real life, you have courts, but here, you feel sometimes that there is no court or no law. It’s incredible.
So it is difficult for me to stand by and staying silent. I’d be disappointed at myself for staying mute. If people have some conscience or empathy toward other volunteers, they won’t do things like that.

I should take writting tips from you, seriously, I’m thinking about it
I have to say I know how people are and I am just like people. You remember our conversation with the GDPR and lazy people? I am lazy to make something structured, not always, but still, I am lazy xd But what you say is totally right. Something short, concise and well-presented is always better.

For the Italian nssa: “It’s me, of course.” Hahaha
For the French academy, they have many senseis.
So why not for the Italian academy?
But I’m afraid, as we were discussing it, the initial goal for helping the community will finish crushed.
Some will use the academy to recruit more followers to their “faction” to use them, have some influence on them and keep them in their team only. Finally, there won’t be independance in senseis. A student should be free to choose and a sensei should not be biaised or manipulate students. Teaching, that’s all.
But I agree, ppl should know and be warned of the situation with factions existing, etc.

I think it’s an utopia on Viki. Believing that all people would act correctly… but if we can do something even if it’s small, why not?

Ps: we have to make a decision in life. As to know who should be able to do the job, sometimes you don’t know and pick the one you believe in. I think taking more than 1 sensei if there are many applicants can also be a solution?
Or put on trial and see which one(s) can do the job.
Between blocking an academy and picking someone you are not sure to trust, I prefer to pick and then if the person can’t be trusted, take someone else. If you can’t pick bec you don’t know the language, in 10 years, if you haven’t learnt Italian, you still be stuck without an academy.
Whereas if you tried already, at least, you know who can be trusted. Without trying, you can’t possibly know…
So I think, Irmar, it was not possible at the beginning to build a decision on that. Ya sure it was the reason? It seems absurd. Think it’s more because they don’t want to create more problems between factions and don’t want to hurt applicants. Maybe they think that the sensei will influence the students and only favors one faction, so most subbers will go in 1 faction only?