Viki

[Viki Community] New Moderator Roles Requirements


#61

As I said in the first reply, I don’t agree with the current form. So under no circumstances can it be said that I disagree with a limit at all, if there is a quality check.

From what you present here, it appears that you too have a special situation in your community and these new requirements will help you. But looking at the situation of my community presented above, it appears that my community will be affected. Most importantly Viki watchers will experience even worse quality.

In conclusion, we come to the point already mentioned: every community has its problems and peculiarities.


#62

in my opinion the limit should be about 10,000 subs, as 3000k personally took me few days to reach when i joined here.

I’m still relatively new here, joined in the middle of April, yet i managed to be in top50 in April and i probably will reach golden GC sometime soon this month.

the problem is that no matter how much effort i put and how many time i spend here, i feel like i dont have any chances to ever be a language moderator just because im new. i see so so many projects being assigned to the same people and i sometimes check the progress on the dramas, new episodes not being translated for such a long time. maybe it doesnt apply to all moderators of course, but i definitely think that some take projects just for the amount, they get the role just cause they’re here for a long time, but they’re not even able to put the same effort and time to all the projects meanwhile im here basically everyday anytime and ready to do my best, but im easily rejected just because Im not here as long as some others or i dont really know anyone.


#63

(btw, about the abusers, my report about google-translate moderator still is unaswered since september last year, yeah…)


#64

I’ve been doing this since I started moderating, even though I wasn’t an NSSA member. It was only in February 2022 that I took over the coordination of the Romanian Subbing Academy. So for me it was more a consolidation of what I was already doing. However, as I said, Viki does nothing about those with quality issues.

It has happened to me many times to give feedback and tell certain people that they have problems that cannot be solved on Viki, so it is not the time to translate on Viki. What did these people do? They started applying for the role of moderator, because why not… This way no one will tell them they have problems.


#65

May I be frank? You are quite impatient :yum: It’s not surprising, all new members are. It actually took me YEARS to understand basic principles of Viki’s community and teamwork. And I’m still learning to this day. Additionally, unless you are a professional translator, you have much to learn on the subbing front. Which you will not know now, but after some years when you look back at your first translations.

So, in my opinion one month is not a long enough time (no matter how many subs you have) to say that you have a problem getting a mod position. Especially not in very competitive languages (Spanish, Portuguese, Italian etc.). You just need to be patient.


#66

Well what i mean that in my language i see moderators that are not even here often, like they don’t seem to have time for their projects always or take a lot of them but are not physically able to put the same effort to all of them, they keep the projects as theirs to mod, but then it’s been weeks and nothing changes in the progress of the drama. that’s what i mean that people like me who actually are passionate about learning how it works, are here everyday and do want to spend time on it, they still don’t have a chance while some ‘old’ people here take the projects easily and then there’s no progress at all because they don’t have much time to be there.


#67

I’m sorry to say this, and I’m glad you’re working so hard on Viki… but that is the mods’ problem. In my experience, you need to have at LEAST a few months’ experience, no matter how passionate you are and how much you contribute. You have to spend a lot more time on a lot of varied projects, understanding the people you work with, assisting different types of superiors, and watching how good leaders handle their mod positions. I’d suggest finding someone willing to train you, or help you understand all that modding entails. It’s not enough to just know how to translate.

All the best on your mod journey! :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:


#68

It might be only useful against extreme hoarders in fact. I mean, last time I became CM the majority of the applicants didn’t exceed 5 projects. We already have projects left unattended and it might even increase. We don’t have this many moderators and some projects that weren’t picked up immediately may end up with moderators that have less projects… and less quality.

It won’t hurt the English editors much as they can continue as editors or all languages moderator, but it might affect them if they do both or if they have old projects with significant delays. We have some projects that weren’t even translated into English for years or projects where it took a year or more to release them for OL. So in the end the ones punished are those who allowed you to offer many dramas to different languages,

If Viki hasn’t already been taking care of reports now in an appropriate time frame it’s questionable that this will change now. When I reported a lazy CM for mismanagement there was no reaction for 4 months. I sent another message and they closed the matter in March. Nothing changed. Now I’m forced to just translate since nobody cares obviously.
And I can name a bunch of other projects where 1 episode was released every few months and which haven’t been finished yet for one reason or another. It’s sometimes the same people, but Viki still rewards them for their efforts.

Maybe I won’t receive messages from the rare language moderator with 20 project’s anymore, but let’s face reality - nobody else will cover for them either.


#69

Some people might have moderation experience from other places too and what i guess is just as much important, time and passion to do so. Time does not determine how good you are at something. Yes, it helps to improve, but only if one is willing to learn. I’ve seen moderators who ‘corrected’ my subs with mistakes, i’ve done a lot of research on something while subbing and that ‘long experienced’ moderator changed all my subs with incorrect forms of words, because they did not do that research, i had to prove them that i’m right and send all the links to materials i researched. There are also moderators in my language who are not here really often, they say themselves they don’t have time to work on their own projects or i see them having ‘more than one can handle’ cause in fact it’s not possible to put effort to all projects the same once you start too many at once, especially if you’re not here everyday anyway. The thing is that i do find some people being greedy and not wanting to give a chance, to teach someone who just maybe might also have a huge experience, even if it’s outside from here and does treat this place seriously as their job. I do see some people taking projects just for the number. And yes as someone who is willing to learn, i must start from something. The thing is that the chance to start from anything is almost 0 right now, so the changes do make me happy, i just hope it’s going to be fair for both parties and people who actually treat this place seriously and are here everyday like i believe many of you here, you won’t be too hurt be the changes either. To me the problem are these specific people that come by occassionally and have a huge chance to be language mod automatically just for the time they’ve been here in total and no, this is not everything that matters.

Thanks anyway, have a nice day!


#70

But the rule is for language moderators, not for the Chief Segmenter position. Right?

It has never happened to me that a page designer has to modify the cover page as the drama progresses. It’s usually just the volunteers’ names that are sometimes added or taken off the list, but those are not part of the image, they can be changed by any moderator…
If there is indeed some change to be made on the cover page, then the designer could be temporarily added again and then removed after he/she is finished. No big deal, really.

I agree that English teams are a different matter than Other Language moderators. But again, one could be removed from the All Language mod after the project is over, and only retain their English moderator role. (The Editor role is practically useless, because you don’t have some necessary permissions)

You are moderators where? Moderators of the dramas where the training takes place? Every drama has usually its normal moderator and then the “invited” senseis who do their job there. Or do you ask for it jointly because it’s a training channel? I don’t know at all how the Dutch Subbing Academy works, so I cannot visualize the situation. For the Italian, there is the moderator of the drama who “concedes it” to become a training channel. After the training has taken place, the “real” moderator takes over, edits and releases. From what I know the French Academy does something even smarter: they only “concede” 1-3 episodes of their drama for training purposes: so that it doesn’t take forever to finish. In that case too, the moderator is the main moderator of the drama. I don’t know whether until now they nominated as co-mod the 2nd sensei, but from now on it would be more practical to not do that.


#71

I understand your situation and can confirm that it also exists in my community. We have moderators who have projects that they have taken on for a few years and have not completed, but apply for new projects. Last year, we had one person with about 60 unfinished projects who continues to take on new projects. Fortunately, that person was sanctioned. Unfortunately, it is still active on Viki, encouraging people with serious problems to become moderators.

Personally, I will never encourage someone to become a moderator if I know that they do not meet a certain level of quality and do not meet the criteria for creating a responsible community. I want to have a clear conscience.

However, we can’t now for the sake of the fact that not everyone moderates, turn a blind eye to quality. Basically, at the moment, Viki is somehow forcing the whole community to become moderators, regardless of the quality offered in the language we translate into. Soon, we will become a community of moderators, each translating their projects alone or with the most appropriate volunteers in their community. Sadly…


#72

We’re not added as Chief Segmenters. All of the Sensei’s are added as moderators on the Training Channels for the NSSA. These channels aren’t being used for anything else but the NSSA and I think both the subbing and segmenting academy share the videos (but the subbing academy probably doesn’t use these videos exclusively, I’m not sure).

I guess they can switch us to AL mods to avoid any trouble, granted that Viki won’t put a limit on that in the future.


#73

Let’s see I have 30 moderator projects and I exclude the one that is not for my region.
From those 30, 13 are for Dutch mod I suppose as it says “moderator” only. I decided to check which of those are fully subbed and ask the CM to remove me from projects of which I only was there for quality control and not subbing.

But as I was checking I cannot even visit my own profile anymore due an something went wrong error… Nice move Viki! It really pisses me off.


#74

Chief segmenter role doesn’t really exist anyway.
Chief segmenters have to be added as all languages moderator.

Same with segmenters when we have to A&C (adjust and combine) segments on presubbed projects. Because sometimes if a language is locked, we can’t delete segments to combine them or just delete useless segments, so we need to be all languages moderator to unlock languages if we can’t delete a segment.
So it would be a problem for segmenters if “All languages moderator” was also counting.
Viki knows that and I guess that’s probably why they decided not to add the limit for all languages moderator.


#75

Quality is an issue i can agree with a lot. I just hope that people who get the mod role can always be responsible and take the role seriously, have time to spend on it and not just take the language mod roles for numbers, but then not putting the effort on some of them, yet still taking more, just because a certain project looks cool and attractive. The 3k subs viki mentioned seems way too low, cause for me, it took just few days to reach it and as i do find myself hardworking and responsible, i know that not everyone is willing to put the same effort and it wouldn’t be good if the quality of subtitles and moderation would get even worse. I guess there are good and bad points and the hard thing to determine here is if all the new people would really be worse than some of the current mods, who don’t seem to put their heart or passion in it that much and just come by to take projects for numbers or won’t be there for even weeks to actually look at their projects. And obviously not all the new people have the skills or organisation or whatever to really suddently get the reponsibility of being a moderator, it would be worse for the community if people, who don’t really take it seriously could easily get the moderation role. But how would it be possible to know who is the responsible one and who’s not… Either way, to me even time spent on here is not at all something that determines if one is a good, responsible mod.


#77

Wow, this thread is on fire, just like the one about moderators hoarding channels! And once again I feel torn, just like when I was reading that thread. When I saw the announcement, a part of me was satisfied, thinking about all those hoarders that only accumulate projects leaving most of them unfinished. We all have such moderators in our communities, regardless of size. But we also have people that work tirelessly and diligently on their many projects, delivering both quality and quantity.
As I had pointed out at the thread about hoarders, the main issue for me is quality. That’s why I said that I consider someone a hoarder when he gets a lot of projects and due to that he doesn’t deliver or delivers low quality content and not just someone who has a lot of projects. At the same time, someone with a few projects doesn’t mean he/she does a good job. There are countless examples. So this solution that is about to be implemented isn’t really solving the problem of quality. On the contrary, it might cause even more problems.
I personally never take more than 3 projects at the same time. But not because of some rule (which wasn’t followed anyway), but because I know my limits and the resources of our community. If I don’t have enough decent subtitlers or enough time to work on a project, why would I apply for it? Simple, right? But, since that’s not always the case, that’s why I insist on the fact that there should be people to check the quality for each language. In each community, there are long time and well respected volunteers that could do that (it happens unofficially anyway) or viki could recruit some by investing some resources on quality.
This new rule seems like an effort on behalf of viki to listen to volunteers’ concerns, we must acknowledge that. But it also seems like trying to patch things up without really solving the problem of quality. With so much competition lately, quality issues should be addressed soon. It might seem like an unnecessary cost, but in the long run it’s actually an investment.


#78

Yes I’m also happy that they come up with a solution against the hoarding. As a CM I try my best to prevent it from happening but you cannot check everything of every user etc etc.

I have 30 mod projects which seem to be a lot but I’m on Viki since 2009 and most of them are projects from years ago when I was not so much into segging yet or I wanted to help a friend out.

So yes I think Viki should come up with a solution for people who have a mod position for an other purpose then subbing.


#79

For the Dutch NSSA, we got 2 designated training channels where we train new subbers. These training channels cannot be viewed by Viki viewers. That means that the trainees can work at their own pace on the series and we as moderators can give feedback and/or put extra notes directly in the segments apart from the feedback we give in the google docs designed for this.
All 3 of us, @mirjam_465, @damiechan and me, are added there as moderators.
If the training channels also count as 2/3 or 2/5 mod positions one can take, then our choice in projects is really limited. Especially if you consider the fact that the 2 channels will never be completed anyway and why should they? You don’t need an entire series to train a newbie and the episodes can’t even be seen by the viewers


#80

I absolutely agree with you, not every community faces the same issues, and what might benefit one might be a huge disadvantage to another one.

In my community there are some wonderful moderators who are willing to go the extra mile to help you, but there are also those who are hoarders and they have their set teams, meaning almost every project you see the same people and they never give others a chance. There is a certain moderator,I won’t mention a name, but they have like 10 unfinished projects and there’s a mix of long and short dramas, but point is they are all unfinished. I was watching one of the dramas they are a mod for and I saw that the subs for our language were nowhere near being completed so I checked the team to see who was the moderator and I saw who it was and went to their profile and that’s when I saw that they had a long list of unfinished projects so I was bored enough to check all the projects and I discovered that for I think a drama with 70 episodes there were only around 14 translators for my language. That’s only part of the issue tho, the biggest issue is that from that team only one person had 4,000 subs the rest has 1k or 2k. But now guess how many the moderator had? Almost 20k. For another project it was the same issue, it was 80+ episodes and the team only had 10 people, they had few subs while the moderator had 30k+ subs. And the same story repeated for almost every project where they were that language moderator.

I saw that said moderator has various unfinished projects so I messaged the channel manager from a project that really interested me and that had been sitting there without subs for that language for a while. The reason I had to message the CM was because the moderator never answered my message. Now mind you, I am fairly new and I am still learning, so my message was asking the CM if I could be co-moderator to you know help the moderator while also gaining experience and learning. Well the CM answered me that the moderator did not want to have a co-moderator and that they thought it was because even though the show had around 70+ episodes they could take their time since it’s not a show that’s currently airing.

Now my issue with that is that yes while there is not as much of a hurry because it’s not airing does that excuse a moderator to have a series sitting there unfinished just because there is no hurry? All projects should have a deadline and not just have them sitting there because you keep hoarding projects and leaving some of them sitting there without subs. Even though its not airing it does not mean that people are not watching it. If you take the responsibility over a channel then you need to get it moving and completed as fast as its possible. Like one of my favorite moderators says, when we accept a responsibility then we must fulfil it.

A lot of moderators like that have 500,000 and when they apply to Mod positions obviously it goes to them because they have “experience” but the reality is that when you really check they have a long list of unfinished projects and that’s very unfair to other moderators.

So that’s why I partially agree with the new decision. On the other hand there’s the quality issue of subs. 3k subs are not enough for someone to be a moderator and know how a team should work. I personally first started doing subs, after I felt comfortable subtitling I moved to editing and now that I am getting the hang of editing I plan on working as a channel mod, preferably as a co-mod to gain experience.

Viki should seriously have a team to answer tickets, there are so many inactive CM’s and language moderators with unfinished shows/series/movies and those projects are just sitting there.


#81

1000% agreed, i do know a moderator who is a little ‘hoarder’ and very recently i’ve seen them getting the newest dramas projects, meanwhile i do know well they have at least one project they don’t really care at all, new episodes are coming out and noone touches the subs for weeks. Why does this person get to have all the ‘cool and fun’ new projects that are coming out, if the ones they already have are totally undone and left alone?
These people have 0 responsibility, noone checks on them either. And i guess they get new mods roles just bcause the long time they’re here for or whatever, but their job is done so badly, because if one can’t take care of current project, why take so many new ones?

I often don’t even know who to reach out to, i feel like most people would treat me like someone worse, because i’m relatively new. Like ‘sit and listen, because others been here for longer’. Sure, but a lot of these others are not responsible at all and do not think that real people are watching these dramas and waiting for subtitles, while they leave some shows alone and don’t bother about them, taking more and more new language mod projects.