Vikibot's massacre!

[anna79_9]

Honestly, I'm as disgusted as you. Those who do that, they are really ignorant! What makes me wonder now: Why is not this channel Wok of Love given to a team, if it can be translated into other languages? I guess viki thought, "We'll keep it to use our vikibot for all languages, it'll be faster." And so in this perspective, they do this against us! It's stupid. I think Viki and most of all, those who work for Viki really do not understand anything about the Viki community:What's behind Viki is the many volunteers who provide quality subtitles, but apparently they only think about money and time. When the volunteers will leaving viki, and they will find another site that will respect them, I already imagine the fall of the benefits here, in viki! Because despite everything, a volunteer is also an important pawn in the chessboard. For a while, I really ask myself the question: What do I do on Viki? Why I waste so many hours on viki, when I could use them for something else ... Especially for people who use segmentation and translation robots that go against their own principle: Quality first. Because robots provides translations and segmentation of a person that could be called "abuser"!! But here, with Wok Of Love and with this vikibot, the problem is mostly comprehension... because sometimes it really means nothing. I'm not sure that people will continue to pay if they do not understand the translations made in French or Spanish...

Should we leave Viki? Should we find another site that will respect us? Should the community create its own site?

Denisse...

so you could log in?

Let's not even talk about the many bugs... Viki apparently disintegrates.

Other thing: What does the vikibot provide that the volunteer team does not do? Why viki uses vikibot? What we do not have and the vikibot has?

[deval_chloe]

Thinking about it, if we wanted, we just could leave Viki and with so much people we are we could create our own site.

The main thing that makes Viki so special is the community, but if we can't "work" together like we want and provide quality anymore, what's the point?

But just think about how many hours the ones who are on Viki since years spent to provide subtitles into their language. Seeing these "things" on Wok Of Love, I was like "Just why?" Even some people who are not volunteers are saying they can understand nothing with that kind of subtitles. What's the point of using a bot if subtitles are that bad finally? And what's the point of being volunteer here if we can't correct all this.

I will not talk about titles and descriptions because we all know how much it's annoying, but I am wondering, if they start using a bot everywhere, what's the point of being volunteers?

Anyways, I will stop here because if not I will never stop...

Edit: I just saw a Portuguese comment saying "the subtitles in Portuguese are in Spanish"... And there is other people saying it.

[kobolt]

Qu'est-ce que le vikibott a et que nous n'avons pas = la rapidité. Quand nous devons attendre une éternité pour pouvoir sous-titrer dans nos langues et que ceux qui payent se plaignent (j'ai attendu deux ans le feu vert pour god of war et j'ai fini par traduire sans l'avoir, avec des sous-titres presque incompréhensibles en anglais), viki, qui pense à son fric avant tout, a choisi cette solution, qui est peut-être la pire, au lieu d'engager quelques traducteurs (même si cela a été fait, certains dramas ont avancé grâce à ça)
Je suis désolée de dire ça, mais quand je vois comment écrit la majorité des gens qui font des commentaires sur viki, je crains que la bonne qualité de nos sous-titres leur soient totalement indifférente. Il n'y a que nous, ou peu d'entre nous, qui accordons de l'importance à l'orthographe, et finalement, avons-nous besoin de sous-titres français pour regarder les séries, non. Partie d'un niveau zéro en anglais, il y a 6 ans quand je suis arrivée sur viki, je n'ai plus besoin de sous-titres français maintenant. Alors vous autres, je suis sûre que vous en avez encore moins besoin que moi.
Par contre, j'espère que viki ne s'imagine pas nous demander d'éditer ça....

Le défaut de viki est aussi de laisser apparaître sur le site les vidéos avant qu'elles soient traduites. Elles ne devraient pas être visibles tant que leur traduction, au moins en anglais n'est pas fini. Cela fait augmenter la frustration et les message de plaintes.

[fizban]

Je ne pourrais pas dire mieux.

[deadliftdiva_548]

What I was told...during the initial outbreak of this was that it would NOT be done again without the CM's choosing to agree to it. That there was a FAQ that would be put out...and all things in FUTURE DONE ABOVE BOARD.

So...you're saying this is all new?

As for completed eps being erroneously overwritten...yeah I had that too. And a Spanish Moderator and I spent HOURS rolling them back. IN SOME CASES this jerk of a bot overwrote the SIMPLE and RIGHT sub by the subber with its "own work". NONE OF THE COMPLEX SUBS IT DID WERE RIGHT. This was also one of the moments where a "helicopter" was discovered in French in a Ming Dynasty drama...when the word was meant to be meat chopper or cleaver.

NEEDLESS to say...this is a very discouraging development if in fact it is new work being botted in and essentially without the notification and courtesy due to actual HUMANS.

IS THIS MONTH's BADGE THE 'ROLL BACK AND EDIT BOTTING BADGE"?

[irmar]

Le défaut de viki est aussi de laisser apparaître sur le site les vidéos avant qu'elles soient traduites. Elles ne devraient pas être visibles tant que leur traduction, au moins en anglais n'est pas fini. Cela fait augmenter la frustration et les message de plaintes.

Je suis pleinement d'accord avec tout excepté ceci.
ll faut aussi penser à tous les gens qui comprennent le coréen/chinois/etc. Il y en a pas mal ici. Soit des Coréens/Chinois qui vivent à l'étranger, des étrangers qui étudient la langue, mais aussi des gens qui habitent en Corée/Chine mais n'ont pas eu le temps d'attrapper la série quand elle était diffusée à la télé car ils n'étaient pas à la maison, ou bien car deux séries qu'ils souhaitent voir sont diffusées en même temps.
Pourquoi ces gens là, qui n'ont pas besoin de sous-titres, devraient-ils attendre que ce soit traduit en anglais avant de pouvoir voir la série?

[anna79_9]

Qu'est-ce que le vikibott a et que nous n'avons pas = la rapidité.

Mais à quelle prix ? Le prix de la compréhension et des fautes... Mais tu as raison, ils ont moins de soucis avec le vikibot, il ne peut pas dire grand-chose de son mécontentement.

d'engager quelques traducteurs (même si cela a été fait, certains dramas ont avancé grâce à ça)

Oui, ils en ont engagés mais ils ne font pas de l'édition, ils font de la traduction et ceci ne résout pas le problème de l'attente interminable des éditions. Qui est mis en cause ? Pour le coup, je dirais que c'est au CM de s'occuper de ça.

Je suis désolée de dire ça, mais quand je vois comment écrit la majorité des gens qui font des commentaires sur viki, je crains que la bonne qualité de nos sous-titres leur soient totalement indifférente.

Oh mon Dieu ! Mais tellement ! Parfois je me demande pourquoi on se casse la tête... Je me demande même s'ils comprennent nos phrases quand elles sont sans aucune faute... Parlons-nous la même langue ? Peut-être qu'ils seront satisfaits des mauvaises traductions du vikibot et de sa rapidité pour le coup.

avons-nous besoin de sous-titres français pour regarder les séries, non.

Oui, je ne pense pas que les bénévoles aient vraiment besoin du français. Je ne sais pas vous, mais je regarde toutes mes vidéos, films, dramas... en anglais. Si je regarde en français, mon cerveau pense "traduction" et il ne fait que "commenter les erreurs de traduction" XD Quelle horreur !

Par contre, j'espère que viki ne s'imagine pas nous demander d'éditer ça....

Euh ! Je pense que très peu de personnes vont accepter ça ! Perso, je n'accepterais certainement pas ça !

Le défaut de viki est aussi de laisser apparaître sur le site les vidéos avant qu'elles soient traduites. Elles ne devraient pas être visibles tant que leur traduction, au moins en anglais n'est pas fini. Cela fait augmenter la frustration et les message de plaintes.

Tu as raison, ce qui me fait penser à Rich Man, Poor Woman -> Je pense que la plainte vient de l'attente, ils ont la vidéo mais ne comprennent pas. Personnellement quand j'ai regardé Untouchable Lovers, j'étais vraiment vraiment à fond ! Même si l'équipe anglaise était incroyablement rapide, je n'ai pas cessé d'actualiser tellement mon désir et mon envie de voir la suite était en ébullition en moi... Donc je peux comprendre, maintenant de là à insulter les équipes, c'est vraiment ridicule. Je pense que s'ils faisaient rien que 50 sous-titres par eux-même, après 30 minutes à se casser la tête sans aboutir à une réalisation satisfaisante, ils comprendraient notre position.

[anna79_9]

IS THIS MONTH's BADGE THE 'ROLL BACK AND EDIT BOTTING BADGE"?

Is it even possible? I think there should be a benevolent and readily available army of volunteers to tackle bot's monstrous translations!

I propose that we, volunteers, offer to viki a special badge for this month and thank them: The Endless Bugs Badge.

[lutra]

Well, well ... This is where Viki's interersts and the volunteer's mindset totally clash.
Viki Rakuten wants to create a translation program at best and what better "playground" could there be than a platform like Viki. Rakuten didn't buy Viki for volunteers to have fun, they bought it to generate a translating option better than g* translator and co. So there is a big chance to make money. Why Spanish now? How many people in the world speak it?
Of course such a system can't work without mistakes right away. It needs time, one needs to be patient.
So in the end how will Viki turn out, no volunteers at all, or only the minor languages, or only for editing issues?
I guess we will see ... As for Viki I fear they will more or less remain silent about the issue, or maybe sell it as a good thing on their blog? I haven't been there for quite a while, because nothing much of interesting information for me.

[deadliftdiva_548]

not...funny...actually.

they recruited some volunteers from segmenting a bit ago to do some "repairs" in a timed test ...of poor segmenting...and...maybe...that's the thinking on their part, to make us all fix poor work rather than do good work more slowly. never mind the repairs take longer than our work and well...

let me put it this way. there's a good reason certain places that buy video translation say "NO MACHINE WORK".

in some languages, the crimes are much worse than others.... take two of the most complex languages in the world....and...bot it...and you get nothing but trouble.

sigh. Oh My Guanache!

[feyfayer]

they recruited some volunteers from segmenting a bit ago to do some "repairs" in a timed test ...of poor segmenting...and...maybe...that's the thinking on their part, to make us all fix poor work rather than do good work more slowly. never mind the repairs take longer than our work and well...

Yeah they did this with some movies as well. We had to fix the segments and that took a lot of time and you don't even get credited for the work... Quite sad

I hope this doesn't become the new normal...

[fizban]

I had to fix all segments in a movie last year too and it took me ages.
Another one has been segmented by the bot this week. I've started to correct some segments and I had to add missing ones, but I will let the rest as it is. It's becoming the new normal.

[dudie]

I had to fix all segments in a movie last year too and it took me ages.
Another one has been segmented by the bot this week. I've started to correct some segments and I had to add missing ones, but I will let the rest as it is. It's becoming the new normal.

Ohh yes I remember that years ago we had to edit the itazura na kiss movie. It was such a pain as we couldn't delete segments and combine stuff because everything was auto segged and subbed. Now I'm like why waste time to edit the bad auto seg/sub Viki wanted... If that's the quality they want.

[feyfayer]

Now I'm like why waste time to edit the bad auto seg/sub Viki wanted... If that's the quality they want.

True T.T Good question...

[deadliftdiva_548]

At this point folks, we have two separate discussions really.

1. An apparent outlier of the vikibot ONE TIME outbreak here. First of all, I've done some checking about this. And then had to think back, just what the deal was and how you found out "what got hit" and how to deal with it.

2. New work done by machines or very badly-trained humans on dramas that are coming in now.

With regard to item 1 - I have just verified NO MORE WORK was vikiboted here. No more existing dramas hit, the ONE TIME was it.

So you say, how could this episode have been overwritten? Discovered only now?

At the time...CM's only were the ones who were allowed to REQUEST A LIST OF WHAT GOT HIT IN WHAT LANGUAGES AND WHERE. Say you were on a project where the CM did not ask for the information - or was dormant or possibly had left? Then you did not know the status of "DID YOU GET HIT" in this drama at all. Make sense now? Odds are the CM on the project Anna has found the botting on was NOT one who asked for the list...or was aware of it or active. OR it may have been missed in the accounting to us, if there was a request made by the then-CM.

Clearly not all CM's here are active and engaged day-to-day and get all the information, we have found sometimes folks are not aware going forward of changes even if we do put them up here and do our best to circulate it - and the overlords DID send out such notices.

I have sent Anna the information on how to roll back the episode - it's by hand, unfortunately - as the episode had already been subbed in French...and the botting is the usual ineffective miss on translation.

I suspect we will still come across such outlying episodes due to the as I said before, folks who did not know about this or ask for a list of the affected episodes or a miss on gathering the list when the overlords did so, it was QUITE EXTENSIVE AT THE TIME. (I AM STILL FURIOUS about the huge chunks of CONDOR and other dramas done without even a MOMENT of courtesy...believe me...and only the fact this has TRULY BEEN HALTED makes me feel any better about this one. Make no mistake!)

With regard to Item 2 - THAT is clearly a live issue - the condition and ability of volunteers to work with poor flashy choppy segmenting and absolutely miserable translation - even a modern movie from Chinese to English was in extremely poor condition - and this was FAR from challenging dialogue! The lengthy time it takes to REPAIR THIS PAINFULLY....(shaking head)....

Clearly there was a "test" where segmenters were asked to come in and "participate in a paid experiment"....where they were to "repair" various problems...or seg without wave...all in a thirty-minute time span....obviously there was something going on with regard at least to the machine segmenting.

Here...is where I have to say as an editor...ROGUE work...whether it be human or machine, is not welcome. The pain inflicted on those repairing it is not worth the time ...and...we do this for FREE.

Making it more painful for us to WILLINGLY GIVE OUR FREE TIME TO THIS SITE IS...a rather unfortunate and unwelcome development!

Generous and magnificent hearts of the volunteers...shot by unseen arrows in the darkness...this may cause us to lose that very lifeblood they wish to tap...unseen....for their own use.

I know I spend a considerable amount of time here gathered with the global talents of the world...and I would certainly NOT trade one moment with them for machine convenience.

And I do not envision my Teams....in this condition:

GenIe of the Lamp
Mei Daxia...will go where no bot dare to tread...

[camiille]

Hi Community,

We’re reaching out to you in regards to the concerns you’ve raised about Wok of Love.

We’d like to make it plain and clear that the confusion caused by this was never the intention from our teams. At the end of the day it’s our goal to ensure happiness from all of our users, from both the viewers as well as the ones that make it possible for them to watch these shows in their native languages. A subtitles suggestions tool was inadvertently launched within this project. As we continue to work for you, we’ll make this tool available in the near future to help as a guide. We’ll be sure to keep you posted on its release. These tools are meant to help channel teams decide on the best translations and not to be used a replacement. Viki’s subtitles are the best around, and it’s no secret that it’s due to the tireless efforts from the community members that provide them.

Moving forward Wok of Love will soon be open to additional languages. For all those who have already reached out to us expressing interest in working on this title, your requests have been noted and we will be reaching out to you soon.

As always, if you have any additional questions or concerns, we welcome you to write in to us.

Best,
The Viki Community Team

[dudie]

We’d like to make it plain and clear that the confusion caused by this was never the intention from our teams. At the end of the day it’s our goal to ensure happiness from all of our users, from both the viewers as well as the ones that make it possible for them to watch these shows in their native languages. A subtitles suggestions tool was inadvertently launched within this project. As we continue to work for you, we’ll make this tool available in the near future to help as a guide. We’ll be sure to keep you posted on its release. These tools are meant to help channel teams decide on the best translations and not to be used a replacement. Viki’s subtitles are the best around, and it’s no secret that it’s due to the tireless efforts from the community members that provide them.

You mean something like let's say One Liners 2.0?

[feyfayer]

You mean something like let's say One Liners 2.0?

Let's hope not...
Je bedoelt toch van die enkele zinnetjes terwijl er een hele reeks gezegd wordt?

[dudie]

Je bedoelt toch van die enkele zinnetjes terwijl er een hele reeks gezegd wordt?

Ja die. Was zo blij dat we daar eindelijk vanaf waren

[feyfayer]

Laten we dat hopen