The Dutch version sounds too unnatural here.
Actually, some of the presubs are machine translations.
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mirjam_465Actually, some of the presubs are machine translations.
The way machine translations work is, that the information that was input into the computer is done by human beings (mistakes are possible). That is why I said ‘‘is still a subber’s mistake’’ if they leave the pre-sub sentence as is, without fixing it.
Not sure how to pose?
Weet je niet zeker hoe je moet poseren?
mirjam_465The Dutch version sounds too unnatural here.
I think I wrote about this to you a long time ago where this situation that I’m seeing a lot lately in the subtitles here at RViki lately. I call it the ‘‘domino effect’’ once a sentence/subtitle is written wrong/incorrect, the OL will continue the cycle of adding a wrong/incorrect sentence/subtitle in their own respective language.
Unless they are proficient enough in English, and know/see that [Not sure how to pose?] was written incorrect, the sentence bc is an incomplete sentence will sound unnatural/wrong/weird, in any other language that it gets translated.
It’s not that they have to be ''The Perfect English sentence/subtitle; reality is, if it doesn’t sound right it’s bc is not right, and as subbers they have to fix it and make it right. That is why I feel not everyone can be an EDITOR. There are several qualifications one must have in order to be an Editor in a drama, and some here lack in the English language, but are being recruited as Editors in English, no less. That makes absolutely no sense to me.
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This is true, but even if the input (from the human being) in itself is correct, the machine might still use it in the wrong context.
Indeed. In the best case, the OL mod/subber knows enough English to understand what is being said and puts that into words in his/her own language. Sadly, this doesn’t always happen.
I agree.
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I was hoping you gave us some of the Dutch sentence I wrote in there and fix them for others to see and learn, too.
Not sure how to pose?
Weet je niet zeker hoe je moet poseren?
How would you fix this sentence and make it sound natural?
Would you leave the English sentence like that? Or you have to change the English sentence so it can sound right in Dutch?
I really appreciate your input. Thanks a lot.
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This made me laugh because even with human-made subs and after English edit, there are weird/wrong lines left and many OL subbers think the English teams don’t make any mistakes at all so it could happen that instead of realizing that a typo is just a typo, the OL subber might tell the OL mod there is a word they don’t know and if the OL mod tells them, it’s just a typo some won’t believe it until it’s verified by the English team…
It could also happen that the English subs are correct but something can’t be said in that way in another language but if OL subbers stick to wordly translation the OL result will be wrong.
Then there are English subs that don’t make sense at all but only when the subber is thinking about it/the context/scene they’ll realize it (some just translate without thinking at all and then a “court” in a palace/harem will become a lawcase… because the English subs skipped yard).
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I would turn the English sentence into a complete one, like we were taught in editor training, but even after that, I would not literally translate it to Dutch. I would rather say:
“Weet je niet precies hoe je moet poseren?”
Literally, that means “Don’t you know precisely how to pose?” but it is how a Dutch person would say it.
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@sonmachinima
Wow everything you wrote makes so much sense if only some subbers see what you wrote here, read it carefully, and apply it to themselves by rethinking their best approach when they see this situation in the subtitles, and find a way to fix them; which thankfully you always see them, and @mirjam_465 too
@mirjam_465
I am finally understanding a lot of stuff when it comes to OL, and the way they have to write the sentence, in order to be correct for the readers/viewers that are reading/watching the drama. Although I still think that if the English sub/sentence is written correctly, the OL subbers won’t have such a hard time when translating into their own respective language.
Thanks to both for the input here, and I hope it can benefit others that read this.
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And this is exactly what we (or at least some of us) try to do. We strive for subtitles that are not only correct, but also easy to translate.
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Sorry to be a pain; I found out that some English words in OL (other countries) they don’t have a word for certain words; so I wanted to ask you if there is a word in Dutch that is similar to
- boringness.
2)What about the word boredom?
- bored?
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saaiheid
verveling
to be bored = zich vervelen
He is bored. = Hij verveelt zich.
He is boring. = Hij is saai.
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Thanks! have you found words in English that can’t be translated in Dutch?
Have you and @sonmachinima thought about making in your language GERMAN/DUTCH one of those [Editor’s note Google.com spreadsheet] to help the newbies and others, too?
I believe that rules and notes are two totally different things, and detailed notes can help the newbie subbers to work together at the same pace, while learning important things, that will benefit the team in the long run so much more. Besides the fact that the new subber can find answers in this note, instead of waiting for answers, that some team members don’t care or want to take the time to give to the newbie subber.
Rules given do not explain how to correct a mistake, and most editor’s note/spreadsheet do. Although some subbers don’t even follow rules or read notes, is because there are no consequences for their actions (I saw this with my own eyes) In the team, moderators, editors etc. need to be more strict and make with certain that subbers, make one mistake, give them a chance after being warned, the second time they have to be out of the team. We are not children here, and if we don’t follow rules the first time, we won’t ever follow rules.
In the case of a Language where not too many subbers are available, then, the team must work with this subber, and the subber must be able to have all their questions answered, instead of being ignored (Like I have seen with my own eyes).
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Boredom and boringness both exist in German. German is a very precise language compared to English. In case there is no German word/term or if it’s outdated, German language just borrows words from other languages. That’s nothing new. It’s part of German language.
Today terms related to IT are very often used 1:1 directly from English. Sometimes Germans also take English words and give them a new meaning that has nothing to do with the word’s origin meaning, two examples are: flat and handy. Flat means unlimited Volume for internet/phone/SMS while handy means mobile phone/smartphone.
This can cause problems for some translators too. Some words looks similar in both languages but have either a different meaning or are used in different context.
The basic tips are usually included in most mod’s documents.
I used to give personal feedback based on individual skill level because being new to Viki says nothing about someone’s sense for language and translation abilities.
Those who are struggling won’t become better just by reading notes, they need practise that explains the issues directly with examples of their own lines and suggestions how a good and easy to read line would look instead.
If someone (both, mod and subber) spend enough time, the subbers will probably make progress when they get help. Not everyone wants to spend so much time for that though.
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An example that comes to mind now is that we don’t distinguish between high school and middle school. We would translate both as “middelbare school.”
That’s why we re-established the Dutch Subbing Academy. That way, we can help subbers/moderators with individual feedback and tips.
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Actually, I’ve been a subber in a show where the moderator switched it to brugklas, onderbouw, bovenbouw, and all other kinds of words I had never heard before depending on the context of the English.
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We use those terms here, but within one “middelbare school” so I would not use them to translate “high school” or “middle school.”
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We don’t have this school system, we have grammar school and high school. High school has different sub-types.
Grundschule
Oberschule
Mittelstufe <= this is a class related to a certain age but it exists on multiple school types that have more than ten school years.
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Sorry took a ‘‘spur of the moment trip’’ and was not around.
Reading through your input I’m glad you are on the right page knowing that finding a similar word that fits the English one is all you guys need.
Some subbers forget that when they translate into their respective language the audience they are writing/’‘speaking’’ the subtitles for are not ‘‘Americans’’ so by finding the word that best describes the person/place in that respective ‘‘country’’ is the best approach to take.
Like @mirjam_465 so wonderfully did; she didn’t find the exact word for ‘‘boringness,’’ but she found dullness that is similar to boringness.
Like @sonmachinima wrote here; in the case of the school system, you/subbers/others, must translate the word that best describes your/their/the school system in your/their/the country ppl. reside in because if you write High School, and don’t add the sub-types as describe above by @sonmachinima, the viewer/ reader will be confused. Another favor we are doing to the viewers itself, teaching them a word that best ‘‘fits’’ the English word in our own language, and helping them to learn English along the way (instead of running to GT that are so unreliable and confusing most of the time). Finding and using resources around us may add more work, but it also adds quality in the work we do, and many praises along the way.
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@angelight313_168 I have another example for you. In English (and many other languages), the verb “to be” is used to say that something is somewhere, but in Dutch we use words like “sit,” “stand” or “lie.”
The milk is in the fridge.
Dutch: De melk staat in de koelkast. = The milk stands in the fridge.
There’s a stain on your shirt.
Dutch: Er zit een vlek op je trui. = There’s a stain sitting on your shirt.
Do you know where China is?
Dutch: Weet je waar China ligt? = Do you know where China lies?
dead-end street = doodlopende straat = dead-walking street
skim milk = magere melk = skinny milk
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You don’t know how happy it makes me that you post this information here! It’s so valuable for me and others that hopefully will read this. Now, I can understand better why when I translate a Dutch to English sentence I feel it has a ‘‘wrong word’’ in it. But there is no such thing as a wrong word was used, and it’ just the word you guys have to use so that your sentence can make sense in the Dutch language. Precious information, and I really thank you from my heart so much.
I remember a sweet message from a sweet person, and something like that happened, but most likely it turns out the person wrote the sweet message in his/her language, and the translator gave the literal translation only (since is all the cheap machine translations (GT) can do). Unless they use an expensive or better quality translator that is designed to recognize, and correct those issues when we want to get a translation in any sentence (in many different language), if not, this problem will continue to go on. I saw a commercial from Japan, and I believe they have one of the BEST translators available from Japanese to English language so far.
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brugklas, onderbouw, bovenbouw = first year, lower, superstructure.
This is the reason why some subtitles/sentence make no sense when we see them in some dramas/movies because they don’t try to find a most common word to add, and use in the subtitle without an ounce of concern, the first word they see in the GT/translators. They don’t care if this word will be recognized by most viewers, and just want the count subtitle in their profile page go UP.
Lately, this situation is getting out of hand here, and they just need to communicate better within their team, and hopefully moderators and editors are willing to help those that need the help. I have been in those shoes; where I wrote to certain team member, and the answer was.; ‘‘look for it on your own’’ ‘‘If you don’t know you don’t belong in the team’’ and in some cases subbers get so scared they won’t ask again, but if you really want quality in your work, you won’t give up, and keep looking/asking to many other team members that are sweet, caring and willing to give you the information that you need.
If you feel those words in DUTCH from subbers can/will affect the sentence/subtitle in dramas, make sure you let the person using those words know, and suggest a more common word to use, that will make more sense when writing the subtitle/sentence in the drama/movie.
Writing notes also helped me a lot in the past, but I see that no one is making notes anymore and I wonder why…I hope they are not getting lazy bc it benefits so many in the long run, and keeps the drama with better quality work. Quantity is worth nothing, if quality is getting affected when we the viewers see these words that makes no sense at all, to us/the viewers.
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