@cerejacult
She more than qualifies as an experienced QC.
She’s really good in her Language [Slovenian].
I believe she’s facing what I went through once in a project that I worked as Moderator/Editor.
The whole process was too overwhelming, and it was time consuming, and I felt like it drained my life, my brain cells, and my mood in general. I never wanted to work as a Moderator again, and was really happy and willing to be only a subber (Spanish/English in my case).
Do you speak Slovenian?
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What process? If there is a shortage of people in her language she’ll be the whole team. The same time she will spend as subber she will spend as mod. That’s my point. She can just ask to be a mod and translate the whole thing alone.
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Exactly; the bulk of the work will be Only for Her to do, and I believe she’s new so it’s a lot of pressure when you have no one to ask question when you have doubts about anything. If she’s lucky, and has several subbers in her team, but their work needs editing that could be too much to have to deal with.
You don’t need to speak Slovenian to know if a person is good or not. Speaking a Language doesn’t prove you are good in that Language. You can know how to speak/communicate a language, and not know how to read or write in that Language.
The reason why I know her work is good…
I always do this with other Language I don’t know, and want to see how good their subs are. I put 3 sentence/subtitles in any translation tool, and if the person wrote the subtitle with correct grammar/syntax (correct writing format) the subtitle/sentence when translated into English or Spanish (in my case) will make completely sense.
Unlike a person that’s not good in (any language) and writes a subtitle in a drama when you request translation in let’s say English the whole sentence will sound wrong/weird/difficult to understand. Most sentence/subs won’t make sense, and it will obviously mean the person is claiming to know a Language they are not proficient at all. I have done that method with several other language, and it gives me an idea if the person is good or not when writing subtitles in any OL that I myself don’t know.
In my opinion, this is not a reliable method to use since translation tools are not perfect. For smaller languages especially, the tools can’t translate specific quirks in writing that makes total sense and is correct in the OL but when translated to English (with a translation tool) sounds like utter gibberish. You can use a word that is a homonym in the OL language, and when you translate it with a tool it chooses the “wrong” usage of that word given the context. On the contrary, if your method was reliable, it would mean that people using MT would provide perfect translations… which is not the case.
The only way to truly know if a translation is done justice is to be proficient in both the target and the source language.
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I specifically said I put 3 of her Slovenian subtitles in the translation tool, and they made perfect sense in English and SPANISH (my native Language) both came out translated a complete full sentence that made sense with subject verb etc…in the right place.
If you have any doubts of her translation go to her page, do what I did and prove me wrong, but her 3 subs I put in the translation tool made perfect sense to me.
Note:
I put one of your subtitles in Swedish
Kom igen! Se till att håll dig vid liv!
Come on! Make sure to stay alive! (this one I would have rather see YOU instead than TO) but it can work both ways. It’s acceptable to me.
¡Vamos! ¡Asegúrate de seguir con vida! (SPANISH) Good too!
So let me explain to you where I’m coming from; One, I like to compliment people when they deserve it. Although I’m not a fan of GT or any kind of translation tool, is HEAVEN to me when I add the OL language in the ‘‘tool’’ and in the language I know (E/S) the subs make perfect sense like hers did, and yours too.
I have done this with other people here that brag about their expertise in a certain language, and when I added their subtitles in any (TT) it informs me the sentence in question is incorrect, and it shows me the correct way it should have been written. I won’t mention the Language because that’s irrelevant here. My point is: we do have some volunteers that say they know a language, and when I added them in any TT/GT, they make no sense at all, and they are useless to read.
BY the way, I never tried to imply quote/unquote: ‘‘your method was reliable,’’
I said:‘’ it was the one I used, and if the person is good in the OL the translation in E/S will make sense, but if the person is not good in that OL than the sub/sentence won’t make sense.
Nothing is foolproof in life, and my method of knowing if the sub is good or not is not 100% perfect, but it has worked for me so far, and that is why I shared that with all of you in here.
kristelrose
a translation is done justice is to be proficient in both the target and the source language
I agree with you on this, and I never encourage anyone to use translation tools for their subtitles. If anything I’m against that 100% and have always voiced my discontent with people who do that here at RViki.
I’m so fascinated with all the different language used all around the world. I understand your viewpoint, and agree with you. I hope you can understand mine too, even if you don’t agree with the method I use. It’s feasible for Moderators that don’t know the OL, and need to know if their subbers in the team are legit in their proficiency they allege they say they are so good at. It worked for me in the past and that’s how I evaluated my subbers in OL since back then there was not much help in that Department.
I don’t want people to Think I’m encouraging the use of translation tools because when it comes to translations it doesn’t work in Any Language. We have to be proficient enough in the language to be able to provide good Quality subtitles/sentence. That’s a Given.
When it comes to Kristelrose translations in Swedish I can tell you that she’s good, and a pure joy to work with. There are some good and some bad translations here on Viki when it comes to the Swedish language.
I think a moderator helping out is a great idea, and I think an experienced moderator should try to help newbies. We are all different and I do understand that not everyone might want to help a new subtitler but isn’t the whole idea about a volunteer community that we want to have the best translations in our own language. And for that to happen we all need to help eachother out.
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This is what I mean, it is not fair to judge even a single translation with GT because tools are so unreliable. In my Swedish sentence “dig” indicates “you” which is not shown in the English translation with GT. Although, this sentence is not the perfect example of where subs can go horrible wrong when translated with a tool to English and yet still make complete sense in the OL.
I agree with you that it must be very difficult for CMs to know whether OL subbers are proficient enough to provide quality subtitles. To connect it with the topic OP brought up, it must be even more difficult when it’s a small language and you have very few “established” or “proven” contributors from that language that can vouch for their language skills (though this practice is not without fault either.) But I sincerely hope that GT hasn’t been used by people to determine a subber’s proficiency in subbing if the CM themselves are not familiar with the language, this could lead to a lot of unfair decisions.
I understand the desperation to resort to using GT to check the quality since we can’t know all languages in the world, and it is difficult to find proven and trusted people who know the language, especially if it’s a lesser known one, and who can vouch for the quality.
Also just want to add that I in no way doubt OPs skills in Slovenian, I don’t know the language so I can’t judge it, I’m just simply commenting on your method.
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I went a little off-topic with my earlier replies. But as @maria_lavendula_77 said… coming from a small language community just like OP, in some cases it can be difficult to find an active moderator to help out new subbers or even subbers who don’t want the moderator responsibilities. I finished my first project with Maria and had so much fun while learning a lot from her. Luckily she encouraged me and gave me the confidence to take on my own projects as a moderator which opened up a lot of more possibilities for me 
So to OP I just want to say, if you finish your projects and can’t find a moderator to work under, don’t be afraid to step up as one yourself since you are a QC. As you say, your language community is small which means that you probably will work alone on it, or take in 1-2 people along the way. It’s not like with larger language communities where managing a big team can be very difficult and stressful at first. The experience won’t differ much from being a solo subber on a project.
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It would be nice if you go to GT and give them Feedback about that word. I do it all the time, and what they do is that they analyze what you tell them, and if they accept your feedback the Swedish word ‘‘gid’’ will be changed to ‘‘you’’ and when I go back instead of seeing ‘‘to’’ I’ll see the ‘‘you’’. Every little bit helps; so we are doing a good thing by improving the GT tool. Is a process where you add your Swedish subtitle and submit the corrected word. It’s very easy, and satisfying to see the corrections you made are been used in the GT. If they get approved though.
kristelrose
I understand the desperation to resort to using GT to check the quality since we can’t know all languages in the world, and it is difficult to find proven and trusted people who know the language, especially if it’s a lesser known one, and who can vouch for the quality.
Years, years back I worked as a Moderator in a drama, and I had to recruit subbers in my Team in OL I didn’t know one bit; like French/Brazilian etc… I would let the subbers do the work, and on my spare time I resort to use translation tools, and thankfully most of my subbers were really proficient and the subtitles/translation were good. But I had a few that were deceivers, and I let them go from the team. When it comes to demanding Quality I was strict on that part, and back then we didn’t had that many OL translators like we do now. So translation tools back then were my helping hand.
What about in English? Why you chose Spanish? Show me the English translation given by that GT from your incorrect Dutch sentence. How you know is correct (right) in Spanish? I’m confused. I’m not understanding if the Dutch sub was written purposely wrong by you: why is it correct in Spanish?
BUT PLEASE:
Give them (GT) the feedback about that. It’s very important to make appropriate corrections so people using GT get a fair translation.
I usually check English first, and rarely in Spanish, but I did it just to confirm that the Slovenian translation from masakocevar36_3 in English and Spanish made sense, and it did.
You can go to her page pick any of her Slovenian subs she wrote, and check it out so you can confirm what I wrote before.
This sub is horrendeus and beyond saving. The google translate says it’s correct.
We should never be basing our judgement of someone else’s subs based on google translate.
I personally don’t really care for google translate. It has caused more harm then good for me. If I had to report every single incorrect sentence, that I saw on Viki, that was caused by google translate, I’d never have time to translate anything.
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Why are you blaming GT when it was obviously a person that did a literal translation (you yourself wrote that) so of course GT won’t be able to give a correct translation based on a dishonest act this other person did when adding those subtitles at viki site.
When did you guys lost me? I think I said it over and over again: If the person is proficient enough in the Language when inserted on any translation tool (not only GT) the translation/sentence for us will make complete sense. Is the proficiency of the individual in any OL what contributes for any translation tool to help others get a good translation in English.
The reason why @mirjam_465 feel GT translate didn’t function well for her either was because she chose to add an incorrect Dutch sentence. That I’m still waiting for her answer as to why she did that because I just can’t understand what she was trying to prove to me.
zyxw
If I had to report every single incorrect sentence, that I saw on Viki, that was caused by google translate, I’d never have time to translate anything.
Proficiency is the key word here.
GT didn’t cause the incorrect sentence; the individual that claimed to know a Language they really didn’t know was the main cause of the incorrect sentence because I have also checked your subtitles in Polish, and I never had a problem in getting a CORRECT translation in English.
I’m not defending any translation tool, but give to Cesar what belongs to Cesar: If we didn’t had some subbers claiming they know a Language that they really don’t know, we wouldn’t see so many weird subtitles here at RViki.
The reason why you and I get frustrated is because we know these individuals are doing something wrong, and causing poor Quality subtitles in the dramas/movies etc., and when it comes to Editing this mess, OMG! the work and energy we have to put in to fix that mess is insurmountable.
My suggestion to give feedback to GT is voluntary only, and if we all share our knowledge with others, we are just being part of the solution to a better translation from TT like GT which can be a helping hand tool for those who need it.
Express reply on my thoughts on this current GT-debate: if we consider that Google Translate is not good enough to just use it for drama translations, I don’t see how we could consider that it’s good enough to ensure that someone is a good translator?
(/ In my view, one of the best ways to ensure that someone is a good translator in a language we don’t speak is to check what drama(s) they’ve been working on recently and contact the moderator for that language. On the other hand, I’ve never been a channel manager, meaning I never had to check this myself.)
This being said, it is true that in French (my mother tongue), we have great online translation tools for English-French (or vice-versa): dictionnaries, glossaries, for the technical vocabulary there’s often a Wiki page in English with a direct link to a French version, etc. I do use Google translate sometimes when I’m not sure about an English version, but that’s from the original language when it’s available: sometimes the English versions feel “too corrected”, as in it feels like a part of the meaning is missing or was added (from the actor’s tone, or because something said very quickly is translated in many-many words, or the contrary, etc.). Thus, if I couldn’t fully understand the original (I speak Japanese and a little Korean), I will check the original version in Google Translation, try to understand how the whole sentence was built, find the link with the English version, understand where the English translators were coming from with this wording, and try to convey a summary of all that in the French version. To sum up, it’s definitely an advanced use of Google Translate, and then, yes, it’s useful. But only as a “help/tool” among others, not for a full on translation or to decide on someone’s level in their language. At least not in my view, of course.
Going back to the initial post and question: If you do want to become a professional translator @masakocevar36_3, I would highly advise you to correct others. Because we learn a lot when we do: sometimes they will have a very good idea we wouldn’t have, it makes us notice habits that aren’t so good but didn’t pay much attention to before etc. You truly do learn a lot as a translator when you correct others.
This being said, you can be a moderator and ask someone else in your language to be an editor, this way you won’t suffer this part if you truly don’t want to do it?
I understand the issue when good dramas can’t be translated because there aren’t enough moderators, making hiring of translators impossible, but here it sounds more like you want to be able to work on (even) more projects yet you can’t as the projects don’t have mods. While, especially if the community is small, you -could- be moderator-editor-translator, so… no more issue?
You would be facing the number of projects limit of course, but this limit was set up so that volunteers wouldn’t be overwhelmed with the work on Viki, and it’s the same in every country: what truly matters is to complete projects, not to start a ton in parallel. Which is, once again, true for every country and one of the basis on Viki: I truly think there should be no reason to make an exception just because the community is small.
What -could- be done is that Viki would set up a list of “less active languages”, where the lack of moderators truly blocks projects, and accept that for these languages the channel manager would “lead” the translators. Of course not on the translation part, but the channel manager would “open to translation” the episodes little by little, close them when they’re done and checked (by the translator(s)), discuss potential translation issues with the translators (not the ones purely related to the target language, but when the translators aren’t 100% sure of what the English means here, and how about this different wording a bit later, does it have a consequence on the meaning, etc.) (yeah, I’m mad about translation details…), maybe set up “format rules” and check that they’re applied by the translators (make sure that the br are not used inappropriately and such details), etc. To sum up, everything a moderator would do… save for the language-part.
It would mean a lot more work for the CM, for sure, but precisely it would be the CM’s responsibility to accept the new translator, and everything that comes with it. And when the new translator is more experienced on how Viki works, they can become a moderator for the language, and hopefully little by little there will be less languages in that list, etc.
Edit: or maybe experienced moderators on the same project could do it. “Experienced” as in Gold QCs only (saying that as a “simple QC” myself, who probably won’t be “gold” before a few more months, and while I completely trust on my abilities as a translator and a team-manager). And if “IT issues” impose to appoint a “higher position in the language” before translators can be recruited, it could be “supervisor” or whatever, just something not as global as “moderator” yet showing that the role is about setting and checking some main guidelines.
Anyway, just an idea, maybe it’s a very bad one / it was already tried and abandonned!
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In English, it’s wrong, too:
My example proved that you can insert a wrong sentence into a translation tool and get a correct one in return. I applied Spanish logic to Dutch so it was only logical that the Spanish sentence came out as something that made sense but in Dutch, it’s still an incomplete sentence. So if the subber’s native tongue is Spanish or any language with similar rules and they claim to know Dutch, a lot of their subtitles might make complete sense to you if you put them through a translation tool.
It becomes a correct sentence in Portuguese, too:
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Also about GT:
I respect those who are in favor/against GT because we live in democracy.
But in my opinion, unless we want to check if a volunteer might be cheating here by copying and pasting from GT, we do not need any translating tool.
We can trust smaller communities are responsible enough and give them a chance. That was always the procedure here and it made sense, we can’t assume everyone is trying to abuse from the start.
A Marvelous day for everyone! ^^
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And even for that, it’s not reliable. Translation tools are constantly evolving so the moment the cheater put the subtitles into the tool, there may have been a different outcome then the moment we are checking it, making us think they did not use the tool.
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LoL Yes, you’re right. I was still stuck in the past 
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