Viki Wants Releases Before English Editing

General Discussion
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We save them money by volunteering, especially rare languages and most likely in regard to dramas from China, Thailand or Japan as they’re rare on international common platforms. So they can exclusively offer those in different languages, which is at least one unique selling point.
We allow them to be preferred over mainly Chinese streaming services with bad subtitles. We are basically stakeholders. Those always have some sort of impact on a company, and it’s not like they hold no importance in business. This ain’t one of the Chinese dramas where the CEO silences you immediately either with their looks or their charisma.

But even if we are stakeholders, we are not paid. So I’m somewhat annoyed, considering what kind of demands other volunteers have these days. Certainly, we can analyze that this behavior is the result of Viki pushing their limits, “release without editing” etc. demands on us. But seriously… why would I be editing 5 episodes within one week? Will these CMs pay me? :woman_shrugging: Can they even expect anything from the result?

Recently, everyone demands to cut down on editing, cut down the team size etc. Some may think that their work is pointless if people don’t wait for it. But I beg to differ. English Editing doesn’t only exist to translate something into other languages. Many watch these dramas in English and in cases where the original subtitles are “okay” major changes can’t be expected. But it can make English viewers choose this platform. It can influence later OL editing. But the community itself is sacrificing this USP through extreme demands and only adding a CE at most. As OL moderator, I like fast releases, but even then I can at most release 3-4 episodes per week in a medium-sized language community. And to be honest. Not everyone is suited to do everything by themselves.

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You wrote: ‘‘We save them money by volunteering,’’ and I wrote: ‘‘WE don’t spend a penny here to keep this site running,’’

Saving them money by our own choice because we want to do the volunteering work for them and for free, and all of us taking our earned working money (from our pockets) to contribute to keep this site running are two very different things, and we don’t do that. We don’t give them money to have this site up and running; so in my opinion they know best if having these rare language offered here at RViki bring them any kind of Profits and not losses.

Remember these rare language at one point will get a Free Viki pass standard and/or plus, and that will be a great loss of money for them, if those rare language are not bringing Paying subscribers to this site. Personally, if I was an investor for viki site, I would eliminate all language that paying subscribers have no interest to pay for, so they could have those subtitles in their respective (native) language.

It’s a wonderful, beautiful and special thing to have volunteers willing to add here that rare language in the subtitles of Korean/Chinese/Japanese dramas/movies/shows etc. But what most of you refuse to see that in the past the economy was better, companies could have the luxury to spend that extra money, but we are not at that stage anymore. Any Businessman in their right mind that want to keep their business up and running have to start cutting corners, so they don’t become another site that went down because their losses where bigger than their profits.

Also, a lot of things come to play in here like the controlling groups that were doing risky actions, like plagiarizing subtitles (and everybody must know how really serious that stuff is). That’s a crime and at one point while I worked in a drama I saw plenty of SPANISH subtitles from other sites that were added in the videos here. This company had so much to lose if this was found out since that’s considered a crime, and who doesn’t know that? Who was doing that? The controlling groups we STILL have here; that go from drama to drama with their buddy system so they can cover any wrongdoing they want to do like using subtitles from other sites and claiming it was their own work. I still see that same group working here as CM/Moderators/Editors, etc etc.

Like @zyxw said abusers were never removed from here and her report from more than a year ago still unsolved (I know at least one abuser who still manages to stay here), but that only happens because they form these controlling groups that ‘‘protect their back.’’ They have different positions and work in different areas here that help them track, and hide what needs to be hidden. I say to myself, JUST maybe if the teams had worked in unity, and not competing against each other, if everyone here wanting to volunteer was given a fair chance, and not pick and chose who they like and don’t like to be in their teams, and poison the others by telling them don’t take this person in ALTHOUGH they knew that volunteer met more than enough Quality and Quality in the volunteer work they would do here than, we would have a site who had no loses but gains.

The reason why RVIKI people are demanding more is because they know it can be done, but as long as the controlling groups that are made up of ONE CE one TE no longer has that control to work at their own pace; things will change for the better at this site. I went recently to an on air drama where a known controlling group was working at, and they were taking so long that the paid subbers had to step in to speed up things there. As I dig in deeper, I asked myself; why such a large group is taking so long to release for OL, if this TEAM are comprise of so may team members? I don’t know why I clicked the one added as an English Editor, and this person was no longer active in here. I clicked another page that a person was added as a subber, the subber hasn’t been active here for a year; so I put two and two together and came to the conclusion they were ‘‘phantom team members’’ and of course they don’t have the manpower to keep up with the speed to finish and meet the require time to offer subs in the drama.

@xylune
Not everyone is suited to do everything by themselves.

I have given many good examples on how some ENGLISH editing team members in Korean/Chinese dramas, HOLD the work for others; for an editing that wasn’t even worth to be waiting so much time for. We have a lot of people like that here, and they need to get off their high horses so that we can speed up subtitles for paying subscribers to be in the dramas in a reasonable amount of time, and not whenever they feel like it because is not fair to this site either since ratings and complains from viewers are sky in the reviews, comments, etc.

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zyxw
Terrible take imo. It’s also not your bussiness, tha your nteighbour’s house is on fire, but you still should call him to let him know.

STOP contradicting yourself you clearly said; , your nteighbour’s house is on fire, but you still should call him to let him know.
And now you are saying…
Nah, I meant more of type: your neighbour went out or is on holidays and his house is on fire.

So if that’s the case why are you saying:
‘‘If he was inside, he could see that’’

‘‘you still should call him to let him know.’’

Give it up already. I’m so done with your contradicting statements, and lack of respect for the opinions others may have. I also have plenty of evidence that can back up what I write in here about the controlling groups, the names (fake or real) they use here, and the 3 and 4 different profiles they have working from, and also the different nationalities they come from because some are so good in making up stories at one point I use to believe all them lies… :woozy_face:

NOT ANYMORE.

PS. NOW this is getting so scary here right now that an [UNKNOWN DELETED USER] can give hearts/likes to posting, and you can’t even find their ‘‘deleted profile’’ page either.
HOPING the CEO’s are aware of this new thing going on in here, that looks very hacker/ dangerous to me, and for their own sake they should investigate the power this unknown deleted user has to come in here like a spy… :ghost:

The second next to @mirjam_465 is the [unknown deleted user]. How can this be happening here?

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um…

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This was some years ago. Last year’s statistics states that they had at least 4.5 million viewers only in Brazil (Brazil: number of Rakuten Viki viewers 2022 | Statista). Do you think they care a lot about a few subtitlers with a Viki Pass if they have a few million viewers? :woman_shrugging: I doubt it.

Anyone can report people. I informed people about someone before and after 24 hours they got removed from 2/3 of the projects and partly the subtitles were deleted. Even if it’s more challenging to prove stolen subtitles compared to Google Translator, it’s possible. And a majority of this community has a similar goal, after all.

If anything, this depends on the support and not on some Freemasons or whatever. And what’s cheaper? Some support or paid translators? I would assume support jobs require fewer qualifications.

What do paid subtitlers have to do with English editing? These are usually separated, and lots of English subtitlers are new people. This doesn’t appear to be related. There are slow editors, but it’s the CM’s responsibility to ensure a timely release. It’s the OL moderators’ duty to report CMs who neglect their job. And in one case lately Viki even asked the CM why there are hardly any releases.
I know of one case where a completely useless CE was added (who did nothing). But do you think anyone will want to work with them in the future? That’s highly unlikely.

Still, it’s Viki’s duty to avoid massive delays. Like this 68-episodes drama that hasn’t been fully released after 3 years have passed.

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I have a vague idea of what you mean by “controlling groups” even if I don’t know specifics, but I fear that the exact opposite is happening with some of the new changes Viki has made. They are actively encouraging some CMs to have less and less people on their English teams because they view the process of TEing, GEing, and CEing as too many steps with potential for too many cooks in the kitchen and too many schedules to coordinate, which leads to too much time between releases of eps. In turn, CMs are looking for people who can potentially do all the steps themselves or at least who can do their part really quickly. Individuals who have high contribution counts are most likely the people who have the most time to devote to Viki, which CMs will see as people who are going to get their projects done in the fastest time possible and therefore will be looking for those types of volunteers even more in the future. In the end, I feel that this is only going to drive away volunteers who may not have as much time to devote to Viki but who maybe have better quality to offer. And to clarify, this is mostly from the standpoint of the English teams.

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I hate capitalism

report them
I do that every time if find someone shady

Nope, not true. Noone backs them up.
I guess Viki doesn’t investigate that, because it’s just time consuming :person_shrugging:

I see you’re really frustrated with your situation. I don’t think I can give you any advice. Just report and be the change you want to see.

I think we speak on completely different wavelenghts. I don’t see any contradictions there. I think it’s the best to stop here, but if you want to, I can explain, what I meant in longer message XD

Ha? Where?

It seems to be a simple bug. Things like that happen sometimes.

You did that by reporting to your language community? I feel like it’s easier than reporting to Viki, because the people in community actually understand the language and interract with each other.

Ding! Spot on.
I have the “last interracted mark” on the report from 3 months ago. I guess they saw it, read it and then just went “naaaah” XD

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wait, why? i’m very confused, that’s very weird & doesn’t make any sense.

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No, I talked to the CMs. Viki should react though as said person is in the top ranking… lol.

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Isn’t Viki itself a “controlling group,” too, these days? The only people who become CM nowadays are either serial CMs who get new channels with the speed of lightning or rookies, while everyone else is standing on the sideline.

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mirjam_465
Isn’t Viki itself a “controlling group,” too, these days? The only people who become CM nowadays are either serial CMs who get new channels with the speed of lightning or rookies, while everyone else is standing on the sideline.

Well, I am praying and hoping that one of the changes the CEO’s have done here is NOT give the Spanish team or ANY team full control of the situation as to what goes on in here; because these controlling actions are the main cause of many wrong things to go on in here, and it so happens that the main thing these controlling group does is to make sure they only take in who they want working in their teams, and sadly, they are all over the place. Ironically, part of the ‘‘Spanish’’ controlling people don’t even know Spanish, but claim they do. I know who they are, and I hope the CEO’s are aware of that too since it can break their vicious controlling cycle that can affect this site so much.

I hope the CEO’s don’t forget that some of these Spanish team members did copyright infringement, and I still see them working here in many projects because reporting them went nowhere to this day. This action could had destroyed the reputation of RakutenViki since that’s consider a crime, and has severe consequences especially for big companies like Rakuten that has no need to go through bc of the unscrupulous behavior of disrespectful volunteers… I know for a fact the Spanish teams did this on their own, and not with the blessings from ‘‘viki’’ since the main reason they do this terrible things is their lack of proficiency in the English language. That is why I suggest they screen every volunteer with a ‘testing’', and make sure they meet the requirements in the English language proficiency that they claim to know, but many don’t. A time QUIZ is a must but timing has to be short since they can mange to get info on other sites since they are experts on that field.

zyxw
2d[quote=“angelight313_941, post:50, topic:47902”]
Personally, if I was an investor for viki site, I would eliminate all language that paying subscribers have no interest to pay for
[/quote] zyxw
I hate capitalism

@zyxw Maybe in your part of the world is called Capitalism, but in my part of the World is called THE LAW OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND. This is a smart move big company owners make to keep their business thriving. You know my favorite saying that applies to that, right? ‘‘MONEY TALKS BULLSHIT WALKS.’’

zyxw
I don’t think I can give you any advice. Just report and be the change you want to see.

I AM seeing the changes in here I wanted to see, and thanks to many of you in here; I believe I will get to see many more changes in the coming future that will make me very happy.

xylune
Still, it’s Viki’s duty to avoid massive delays. Like this 68-episodes drama that hasn’t been fully released after 3 years have passed.

I’m glad you mentioned that here since many volunteers that are waiting by the sidelines might be able to take over this project, start and finish the completion of this 68 episode drama. The only ones that can give us real answer on why the 3 years has passed, and no release is going on in there, are those in charge. Do you know who are in charge of that drama?

I believe they have so much catching up to do, and so many new releases of ‘‘on air’’ dramas, that some dramas might be completely removed, and that may be one of them, who knows? I think they should start doing that and start removing dramas that won’t be worked anymore/ever, so people assigned to those dramas won’t be waiting in vain and having false disappointing hopes of working in those dramas. It’s only fair to the faithful volunteers waiting patiently.

my_happy_place
I have a vague idea of what you mean by “controlling groups” even if I don’t know specifics, but I fear that the exact opposite is happening with some of the new changes Viki has made

I have to agree that the new changes at viki are showing some other form of control that ‘‘too many volunteers’’ here feel they are suddenly waiting on the sidelines to have ‘‘work’’ to do like @mirjam_465 mentioned before that ‘‘viki’’ is the control group now,‘’ @my_happy_place you added: too many cooks in the kitchen and too many schedules to coordinate, which leads to too much time between releases of eps. This part answered your why ''viki is doing what they are doing now.

I just hope is the right control any Big company like Rakuten company must have, so things run smoothly, legally, and profitable for them. Right now these changes are new and on the early stages, and as such is too early to judge whether other changes must go on before this changes become a history of SUCCESS here at RAKUTENVIKI company and Associates.
PS. I’m still not comfortable seeing some volunteers in the Spanish team that I feel have to be removed since they’ve shown a behavior that will never benefit this site, and can compromise the integrity of Rakuten company and Associates. Crossing my fingers… :hand_with_index_finger_and_thumb_crossed:

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How can playing favorites ever be “right”?

You might be forgetting that it wouldn’t just be your controlling groups taking that quiz. Innocent newbies would have to take it, as well. And timed quizes are not fair to people who don’t type fast or who just get nervous from being timed.

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mirjam_465
How can playing favorites ever be “right”?

It wasn’t right when it happened to me, and so many others for years on end and done by these controlling groups we had here in the Korean and Chinese Dramas/movies etc. I never had that problem when it came to working in Japanese dramas because those working in Japanese dramas had no interest in ‘‘hogging’’ the dramas/movies, and shared their work evenly and fair to all, but ironically, we stopped seeing any kind of Japanese content here that I loved seeing so much. How was that possible?

But now that these changing situations are happening to EVERYONE in general bc the controlling groups are finally being dismantled/are no longer in charge at this site, and with new rules implemented by ‘‘viki’’ ; you are telling me… is not right?

I’m not better than anyone here, but no one in here is better than me, and also the many volunteers that were kept away from working in dramas/movies for the selfish reasons of the several controlling groups that took over this place like they owned the place, and only wanted their favorite people to be working in their teams.

mirjam_465
You might be forgetting that it wouldn’t just be your controlling groups taking that quiz. Innocent newbies would have to take it, as well. And timed quizes are not fair to people who don’t type fast or who just get nervous from being timed.

Honey, if you are proficient ENOUGH in the English language; ‘‘typing fast’’ has little to NO relevance in taking that timed QUIZ . Let me give you an example: in the Spanish teams they usually give 3 days to 24 hours to finish a 15 minute part they are given in an episode. Is that really necessary? NO, is not. You know why? They are given so much time so they can find sources of translation that will help them add the subtitles in Spanish from the English language (that was translated from Original language Korean or Chinese). If they really knew how to translate from English to Spanish the most they needed was 1 hour or 2 hours at most for a 15 minute part in a drama. The QUIZ will have a fairly amount of time definitely not 15 minutes. When I say timed Quiz is only to rule out a person who also depends on Translators to add subtitles in the testing.

Why people/subscribers complained about the slowness of the Spanish subtitles being in the dramas? Simple, they were doing at a slow pace something that could have been done in a reasonable amount of time. Why the English team was taking longer than needed? Basically for the same reasons as the Spanish teams did; by doing things that affected the speed in having subtitles in the dramas… Allowing their ‘‘favorites only’’ to work in those dramas when they knew these volunteers were not proficient enough in the English language; was the main root of this problem. Wanting to ‘‘hog’’ dramas for themselves and keeping other volunteers away from their position was the main cause of this evil deed done so much in the past. Hopefully, it ends soon enough and for the pleasure of paying subscribers that deserve to receive great service at ‘‘viki’’ as ‘‘viki’’ has promised they would.

I feel that nervousness will only be an issue; if you/the person taking the QUIZ is not proficient enough in the English language because even if you need to check in any translator tools, it would be for 1 or 2 words, and not the whole sentence/subtitle, that’s nothing to be nervous about if we are confident enough you know your proficiency in the language (in this case would be: English).

Tell me dear, why this quiz you feel will be unfair to ‘‘innocent newbies?’’

I don’t like to judge anyone, but in the past newbies became abusers and liars, but thankfully the changes helped that they are no longer working here. There has been a few posting where they make so many mistakes in the language they say they are so good at, and in the past, you would see them right away working in dramas/movies/shows. I don’t know how or why, but they did.

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I am telling you that it is far from right that Viki is choosing the exact same people as channel managers over and over and over again, while other hard-working, capable, experienced volunteers get no more chance whatsoever.

What is your idea of a fair amount of time?

That just leads to bad subtitles, not necessarily to delayed subtitles. In fact, the less capable an editor is, the less they will correct so they are usually done way earlier than the good editors.

No, seeing that timer while you’re supposed to solve a question distracts and makes you nervous. It’s a very bad way to test someone’s real skills.

We will always have those, but should we, in order to keep them out, really block the way for potentially sincere newbies?

Viki could start by making the sample videos available for all languages.

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YES! That idea would be better than a timed QUIZ since some people can do bad in the testing just bc of the pressure they would feel if they have to rush. I totally agree with you, but hopefully videos from other sources not dramas the volunteers might have worked on them. I was willing to design a QUIZ, but your suggestion is 100% better. Thanks!

mirjam_465
That just leads to bad subtitles, not necessarily to delayed subtitles.

The subtitles were delayed because they had to be edited, and you know editing takes long when the subtitles are a mess. They were mainly delayed bc in the past Spanish moderators would hog so many projects, and didn’t had the time to do any editing. When they finally started to add Editors in dramas, some were just as bad as the subber (I have evidence to prove this statement) since in the Spanish teams there is a ridiculous amount of controlling, they would keep as Editors no other than volunteers they knew; were not proficient enough to be doing any kind of ENGLISH editing work. We all know that dramas are not able to be released to other language until the English editing was completed so the Spanish subtitles were always delayed for those same reasons, and viewers would start complaining from left to right, non stop, requesting the Spanish Subtitles to be already in the dramas so they could watch them (since they didn’t know English too well).

mirjam_465
What is your idea of a fair amount of time?

It depends if I do the QUIZ in Essay questions. Essay questions are always harder to do because it requires a lot more writing and rules in grammar that need to be done right throughout the testing. Timing for multiple choice questions varies in the amount of questions in the Quiz. For example, a Quiz is always timed as 15 to 20 minutes for 50 easy questions, and for difficult questions about 30 minutes. That would be the most time I would give them; since these whiz computer kids can fool me with their answers by using AI methods. If by chance they do any plagiarism, I can manage to find out right away, but I’m an old timer, and when it comes to these new methods of modern cheating in testing; I’m at a big disadvantage because my LUPUS took away a lot from my memory retention, and other things that play an important role when it comes to testing those savvy innocent newbies.

mirjam_465
I am telling you that it is far from right that Viki is choosing the exact same people as channel managers over and over and over again, while other hard-working, capable, experienced volunteers get no more chance whatsoever.

But I’m confused because Channel Managers don’t do much when it comes to doing any subtitling or editing work; unless we are talking about the usual controlling group CM’s that are mainly working in every drama possible, and now keeping their own ‘‘favorite’’ people in their team, and leaving most good quality volunteers out. I hope the CEO’s are aware of this to be continuing going on in here, and how this was suppose to change, so good quality and quantity could go hand in hand into dramas.

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@worthyromance, as the saying goes, I feel ya. I took a look at the Viki Facebook page earlier today. It made me shake my head. Again, I wonder why the @vikicommunity works so hard to shoot itself in the foot.

The Facebook page has to have admins and mods who read responses to posts about the next cool drama that’s going up on Viki. Those anonymous folks have got to know from the consistently negative responses about the current poor quality of subs that something needs to be done about their quality. Yet nobody who can definitively explain the Viki subbing process ever takes time to explain it OR offer fans the opportunity to join the subbing community.

So, in response to negative comments about the Viki drama Oasis that premiered two days ago . . .

03 09 23 Oasis
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I posted the following remarks (I have tweaked THOSE words that the Viki AI censor doesn’t like).

It’s good to remember that Viki has a different way of doing subs than other websites that stream K-dramas.

Subbing is done by volunteers, not by one translator. When K-dramas are licensed to Viki and a team of subbers starts the process that makes subs available in a wide variety of languages, the English-language subs that always come with each drama must be “cleaned” so that they read in a natural way.

After this cleaning takes place, then translations can be made by people who speak other languages.

The reason dramas licensed to Viki always come with English subs is that all subbers use English as a common language of communication. Without that, there could be no Viki.
I have worked “cleaning” Viki English-language subtitles for about four years now, and those of us who sub take great pride in our work.

Because of COVID’s effect world-wide, there are many fewer volunteer subtitlers than there were three years ago, but the demand for dramas of all kinds (Chinese, Korean, Filipino, Japanese, Taiwanese, Thai) continues to grow.

If you LOVE Viki as I do, and if you want to see more dramas with better subs, the Viki community, especially those responsible for creating subs, will welcome you with cries of joy.

How hard could it possibly be for the public relations department at Rakuten Viki to create truly good public relations with Viki fans?

What I wrote about subbing is, I think, fairly accurate; it took me twenty minutes to write; it is respectful; and it welcomes anyone to be a part of the subbing section of the Viki community who LOVES Asian dramas and wants to see LOTS of them with quality subs.

And I did with only my MA in Medieval English literature. I didn’t have to suck up to anybody, conduct endless surveys, or promise “rewards” for participation that never show up (I am still waiting for my gift card).

Common sense. All it would take to eliminate a lot of stress, anger, and confusion is simple, ordinary common sense.


(Giphy)

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I am Indonesian Moderator. I also hope OL can start translating right after TE. Let say until 96-98%. And than the OL editor can start working after Eng Sub officially release. So, we can satisfy both side to whom need fast or need quality.

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Yes, that would be better.

Instead of timing them, give them something they can’t look up.

How much they do is up to them. They are the ones who decide who gets into the team so they can also add themselves or anyone they want to.
But my point was that Viki, who chooses the CMs, ALWAYS chooses the same people nowadays. A minority of favorites is getting all the channels while the others get nothing. The balance has completely gone.

Viki wants OL to start right after the CS…

There is nothing satisfying about this development. Which GE or CE would still be motivated in this setting? And which viewer in their right mind would be happy with the subs?

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And also every language needs an editor.
It’s not that easy in many aspects

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I wanted to stop by and take a moment to say how much I appreciate the volunteer community. You encounter so many issues and work to find a solution.
Thank you, I appreciate you all so much.

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Sadly, it wasn’t exactly accurate.
You said “especially those responsible for creating subs”, meaning Ko-En, Chi-En, Jap-En subtitlers. But, no matter how warmly we welcome them, those people (as well as wannabe segmenters, hoping to get to work, after long months of training) can’t easily find work anymore, as so many dramas - the majority of new ones - now come pre-subbed and pre-segmented.

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